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+--- Thread: Benzo's and "tolerance withdrawal" (/showthread.php?tid=3934)
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Benzo's and "tolerance withdrawal" - Rafterman - 11-08-2017
Has anyone experienced "tolerance withdrawals" while using benzo's over a long period of time? For anyone who may not know, that is when you are on the same dose of a med for a long period of time and begin to exhibit withdrawal symptoms, even though you have not withdrawn. I have been on relatively small dose of Clozazepam for 12 years. I never meant to be on this long, but it has become the mainstay in my battle against anxiety. When was I supposed to withdraw? When I was no longer anxious? ha! I hope that I see the day when I am no longer anxious, but I am not holding my breath. In any event, for the first five years I felt the dose hit on the way in. Not the impact with which ALP hits, but I definitely felt it. Over the next 5 years, I didn't feel anything...but if I missed a dose, I did feel it's absence. But over the past 2 years, I have had symptoms of tolerance withdrawal. So I had to make a decision. Either I wean off completely, or I go up a dose. (There were some other alternatives, but they weren't for me). I didn't want to live on Clowns forever, but it is a small dose. Then again, I live on my heart medicine forever and there is no stigma to that, right? So I chose the latter. Can you believe that adding just an additional .25 dose first thing in the morning completely eliminated the symptoms? I am posting this because I was wondering if any of you are dealing with tolerance withdrawal and what you are doing about it.
RE: Benzo's and "tolerance withdrawal" - invisiblejungle - 11-08-2017
Although I take benzos daily, I do hope to eventually discontinue them when my health is better. There is some interesting research showing that the herb kava kava stimulates the growth of new GABA-A receptors, which would decrease tolerance and improve tapering attempts.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7701051
RE: Benzo's and "tolerance withdrawal" - Rafterman - 11-10-2017
(11-08-2017, 04:54 PM)invisiblejungle Wrote: Although I take benzos daily, I do hope to eventually discontinue them when my health is better. There is some interesting research showing that the herb kava kava stimulates the growth of new GABA-A receptors, which would decrease tolerance and improve tapering attempts.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7701051
Hi Invisible J.
I had excellent results with Kava Kava back in the mid-90. I was ordering it directly from Hawaii and it was supposed to be the best stuff available. I was doing psychotherapy at a woman's shelter back in those days and we were always looking for sleep aid's for the women. (And I was always looking for one for myself). Turns out that after about a month I had a few problems with my eyes. Some photophobia, and tearing and overall hypersensitivity. Also, they would appear bloodshot. Could be just a coincidence, but I had read that some people do have eye trouble when on it. Just thought that I would mention it. Regards.
RE: Benzo's and "tolerance withdrawal" - cmdline - 11-10-2017
i had joy to try kava before it was banned of the otc list,think US is still ok for it, and it was great results sleep mood increase but very short acting.
a lot of blame and damage from kava kava happened around 2000s when it became popular many producers to keep up with demand started harvesting leaves stems etc as well,where root is the only safe part of the plant and eventually it lead to quite few cases of people getting liver failure issues thus it brought wide bans on it, but nowadays when control of quality is back some countries started to let it be legal again Germany is example they did it few years back rest of eu put it under blanket ban.
its good compared to many otc alternatives but dont have very much high hopes to do more then that,wish that research will yeald some results on regenerating gaba a.
RE: Benzo's and "tolerance withdrawal" - invisiblejungle - 11-10-2017
(11-10-2017, 09:03 AM)Rafterman Wrote:(11-08-2017, 04:54 PM)invisiblejungle Wrote: Although I take benzos daily, I do hope to eventually discontinue them when my health is better. There is some interesting research showing that the herb kava kava stimulates the growth of new GABA-A receptors, which would decrease tolerance and improve tapering attempts.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7701051
Hi Invisible J.
I had excellent results with Kava Kava back in the mid-90. I was ordering it directly from Hawaii and it was supposed to be the best stuff available. I was doing psychotherapy at a woman's shelter back in those days and we were always looking for sleep aid's for the women. (And I was always looking for one for myself). Turns out that after about a month I had a few problems with my eyes. Some photophobia, and tearing and overall hypersensitivity. Also, they would appear bloodshot. Could be just a coincidence, but I had read that some people do have eye trouble when on it. Just thought that I would mention it. Regards.
Interesting... thanks for sharing your experience.
RE: Benzo's and "tolerance withdrawal" - Rafterman - 11-11-2017
(11-10-2017, 07:11 PM)invisiblejungle Wrote:My pleasure, I J. To be fair, I should also report that I was in a small minority when it came to the eye problems. Of the perhaps 60 or 70 client's who tried it, only 2 had a similar experience and it worked very well as a sleep aid for the vast majority of them.(11-10-2017, 09:03 AM)Rafterman Wrote:(11-08-2017, 04:54 PM)invisiblejungle Wrote: Although I take benzos daily, I do hope to eventually discontinue them when my health is better. There is some interesting research showing that the herb kava kava stimulates the growth of new GABA-A receptors, which would decrease tolerance and improve tapering attempts.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7701051
Hi Invisible J.
I had excellent results with Kava Kava back in the mid-90. I was ordering it directly from Hawaii and it was supposed to be the best stuff available. I was doing psychotherapy at a woman's shelter back in those days and we were always looking for sleep aid's for the women. (And I was always looking for one for myself). Turns out that after about a month I had a few problems with my eyes. Some photophobia, and tearing and overall hypersensitivity. Also, they would appear bloodshot. Could be just a coincidence, but I had read that some people do have eye trouble when on it. Just thought that I would mention it. Regards.
Interesting... thanks for sharing your experience.
(11-10-2017, 12:38 PM)cmdline Wrote: i had joy to try kava before it was banned of the otc list,think US is still ok for it, and it was great results sleep mood increase but very short acting.
a lot of blame and damage from kava kava happened around 2000s when it became popular many producers to keep up with demand started harvesting leaves stems etc as well,where root is the only safe part of the plant and eventually it lead to quite few cases of people getting liver failure issues thus it brought wide bans on it, but nowadays when control of quality is back some countries started to let it be legal again Germany is example they did it few years back rest of eu put it under blanket ban.
its good compared to many otc alternatives but dont have very much high hopes to do more then that,wish that research will yeald some results on regenerating gaba a.
This is great and interesting information, cmdline. I vaguely remember most of what you said from the past. As I wrote to Invisible Jungle, the vast majority of the client's who sleep had great success with it, and only 2 or perhaps 60 or 70 had eye symptom's. What you say makes perfect sense as an explanation of things went off track with such a promising treatment for insomnia.
RE: Benzo's and "tolerance withdrawal" - Rafterman - 11-27-2017
(11-26-2017, 11:27 PM)fishfarmer Wrote: Apologize my friends, but OTC sleepaids knock me out, I know this comment sounds Like a record skipping but if you have not tried Diphenhydramine HCL, in either 25 or 50 mg, at least give it a shot as you can get it when yo go grocery shopping, and it is cheap-just get the store-brand. No one has ever agreed with me on this so I promise I will not mention again. FF
Hey FF,
I am glad that you brought it up again. It works like a dream for my wife. As good as Ambien works for her, I kid you not. In fact, I have often asked her why she continues to occasionally take Ambien and she admits it's just from force of habit. 99% of the time she uses Benadryl and it works wonder's for her. Thanks again for reminding everyone of how powerful it can be. That can be invaluable information to the right person and I have a feeling that some may not realize it because it is OTC, cheap and widely available. RM
RE: Benzo's and "tolerance withdrawal" - barq2 - 11-27-2017
(11-26-2017, 11:27 PM)fishfarmer Wrote: Apologize my friends, but OTC sleepaids knock me out, I know this comment sounds Like a record skipping but if you have not tried Diphenhydramine HCL, in either 25 or 50 mg, at least give it a shot as you can get it when yo go grocery shopping, and it is cheap-just get the store-brand. No one has ever agreed with me on this so I promise I will not mention again. FF
Fishfarmer, I agree with you. Well... they don't knock me out, not that strong, but definitely help me sleep. Ok, it isn't for everyone, but I certainly use this to minimise use of benzos or z-drugs for sleep. I found that Kirkland Signature do a good value version through Costco (bottle of 600 for $14 USD - numbers from memory, so I may be a bit off, but something like that).
Other sleepy first generation anti histamines are also available. Some are easier to come by than others.
I regard diphenhydramine as a useful tool for people tapering off benzos to help deal with the sleep issue. Note it can make some people dream more. Personally I've found that fine, but your mileage may vary.
RE: Benzo's and "tolerance withdrawal" - Rafterman - 11-28-2017
(11-27-2017, 11:16 AM)barq- Wrote:(11-26-2017, 11:27 PM)fishfarmer Wrote: Apologize my friends, but OTC sleepaids knock me out, I know this comment sounds Like a record skipping but if you have not tried Diphenhydramine HCL, in either 25 or 50 mg, at least give it a shot as you can get it when yo go grocery shopping, and it is cheap-just get the store-brand. No one has ever agreed with me on this so I promise I will not mention again. FF
Fishfarmer, I agree with you. Well... they don't knock me out, not that strong, but definitely help me sleep. Ok, it isn't for everyone, but I certainly use this to minimise use of benzos or z-drugs for sleep. I found that Kirkland Signature do a good value version through Costco (bottle of 600 for $14 USD - numbers from memory, so I may be a bit off, but something like that).
Other sleepy first generation anti histamines are also available. Some are easier to come by than others.
I regard diphenhydramine as a useful tool for people tapering off benzos to help deal with the sleep issue. Note it can make some people dream more. Personally I've found that fine, but your mileage may vary.
Wow, Barq-, you are describing my wife's situation exactly. She gets her's at Costco (the Kirkland Signature one's) and she experiences the vivid dreams while on them...even after 30 years of using them. I think antihistamines are underused when tapering off benzo's. Wish more people knew of their usefulness. I will bet there are more opioid user's that use them to help with their itching (which I heard works marginally, at best) than there are benzo's users who use them to help with their taper. RM
RE: Benzo's and "tolerance withdrawal" - Kg300 - 07-15-2022
I’ve used antihistamines while tapering for years. It is effective as long as not in full blown withdrawal.