Hi all,
The UK is holding a referendum on whether it should remain in, or leave, the European Union later this month.
There is lots of arguing in the UK, which I don't necessarily want to bring into this thread (I'm not stating my politics here). But opinions are tied about 50:50 in the polls so it could happen - this isn't an empty gesture.
At the weekend an American friend asked me if it was true the UK might be leaving the EU, and if that was some kind of joke (like The Onion). I get the impression most countries are relatively unaware of it, and those that are are in the EU and pretty annoyed about it.
Anyone outside the UK heard much about this? Do you have an opinion?
Best wishes,
barq
I live in EU ..and they have made a mess for themselves..Big time..lost a generation, the pound is dropplng like a Stone , firms dont want to invest, banks pull out...they are going Down Big time imo.
It is worse than I feared.
Many people who voted out, are now saying they wished they hadn't, they didn't really think it would happen, and they were protesting against the establishment/government. The way most elections in the UK works means few votes really make a difference, so I'm not convinced people were totally prepared for a referendum where their vote absolutely did count.
My friends in other countries have been contacting me asking "WTF? Why would you do that? What were you thinking?"
One politician stood up and insisted that the UK, as the 5th largest economy in the world, could clearly stand alone. Ironically, by the time they had finished their speech, the pound had dropped so low that the UK was no longer 5th largest economy.
I'm sure some members here will be pro-Brexit and have a very different opinion to me. Obviously 52% of the country aren't racist - I'm not one of those remainers who is insulting everyone who voted differently to me - many of Brexiters are close friends, but we disagree on this.
Lots of lies and fear were behind the Brexit lot,wait til folk go on holiday this summer and see how much it costs them,a lot of folk said they voted to leave because they were sick of not being listened to,as if that will change in future,we'll still be getting screwed by politicians creaming off public money whilst destroying public services.
(07-07-2016, 11:11 AM)tommygun Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of lies and fear were behind the Brexit lot,wait til folk go on holiday this summer and see how much it costs them,a lot of folk said they voted to leave because they were sick of not being listened to,as if that will change in future,we'll still be getting screwed by politicians creaming off public money whilst destroying public services.
I completely agree. That lie about £350m a week going to the NHS swung the vote, but the Tories aren't going to put more money into NHS or any other public services. Ordinary people are sick of everything being closed or sold off.
The EU wasn't perfect, but the UK owes lots of workers' rights to Europe. Brexit + Conservative government will mean ordinary people getting screwed yet again. We will almost certainly have another recession. Pity those who voted out protesting at politicians and big business, then end up losing their jobs.
Friends/relatives in Ireland are used to an open border. Many work one side and live on the other. It brought peace to a long running civil war (let's call it what it was, rather than euphemistically call it "the troubles"). I don't know what will happen there. :-(
Yes,that big £350 million lie,if i or you did something like that we would be up in court,i think those like Boris Johnston and the rest should be put on trial,never happen of course,they are part of the same lying corrupt system as judges,cops,lawyers,multinational companies,banks,the list is endless.
All those who voted leave as some kind of protest against the political elite are going to one day realize they are going to be screwed down as per usual EU or not EU.
Wait til these tory lot force more austerity on us all,whole lot of bad shit is on the horizon,what did the new PM say?
"Austerity means living within our means."
Yeah course it does,liars lining their pockets while the rest of us are made to live on less.
Read recently that workers in the UK are something like 3rd from bottom in terms of wages,meanwhile everything's costing more,unemployment at an all time low,bollocks.
Don't know where you live barq but where i am,there are so many people living on the streets due to various factors,one main one being sanctioned by job centres.
There are too many to count now,its more like walking through Delhi with all the poor folk begging,and its not drinkers and drug addicts doing it anymore,its just average folk who have lost everything due to this so called democracy and its austerity forced on us.
Be interesting to see what happens with Scotland,they voted to remain,if they become independent and stay with the EU then i may well be heading North,or i could try and track down my Irish relatives and get an Irish passport.
Anythings got to be better than this dump of a country made by the greed of politicians and their rich friends.
I don't see anything Great about Britain,and the term United Kingdom means nothing these days.
Rant over,just one thing,don't let the bastards grind ya down!
(08-01-2016, 04:19 PM)TommyGun Wrote: [ -> ]Yes,that big £350 million lie,if i or you did something like that we would be up in court,i think those like Boris Johnston and the rest should be put on trial,never happen of course,they are part of the same lying corrupt system as judges,cops,lawyers,multinational companies,banks,the list is endless.
All those who voted leave as some kind of protest against the political elite are going to one day realize they are going to be screwed down as per usual EU or not EU.
Wait til these tory lot force more austerity on us all,whole lot of bad shit is on the horizon,what did the new PM say?
"Austerity means living within our means."
Yeah course it does,liars lining their pockets while the rest of us are made to live on less.
Read recently that workers in the UK are something like 3rd from bottom in terms of wages,meanwhile everything's costing more,unemployment at an all time low,bollocks.
Don't know where you live barq but where i am,there are so many people living on the streets due to various factors,one main one being sanctioned by job centres.
There are too many to count now,its more like walking through Delhi with all the poor folk begging,and its not drinkers and drug addicts doing it anymore,its just average folk who have lost everything due to this so called democracy and its austerity forced on us.
Be interesting to see what happens with Scotland,they voted to remain,if they become independent and stay with the EU then i may well be heading North,or i could try and track down my Irish relatives and get an Irish passport.
Anythings got to be better than this dump of a country made by the greed of politicians and their rich friends.
I don't see anything Great about Britain,and the term United Kingdom means nothing these days.
Rant over,just one thing,don't let the bastards grind ya down!
Rant away Tommy. You are right to be angry!
I've seriously started thinking about whether to leave the UK. I can't do it yet because I have elderly parents and it would break their hearts. Plus, the grass always looks greener on the other side, so I'd need to really research it properly. Easy to think NZ would be a nice place to live, but very isolated and far away. I would have to start my life again. I probably won't move, but it indicates how strongly I feel about this horrible mess and what the UK has become.
I agree about the £350m lie. There is a group of lawyers in London exploring whether Boris etc can be prosecuted for misconduct in office (can't remember the exact offense). Not sure it will come to anything, but you are right - you or I would be prosecuted for fraud. Influencing such a massive decision with lies, is morally reprehensible. We are used to politicians' spin, but lies on that scale are unprecedented. David Cameron is a f**king idiot for starting the whole thing, just to solve an internal party issue. By coincidence, I actually saw Cameron in person about ten days ago. Normally I go and have a chat with these people, even the ones I strongly disagree with are often interesting (John Major was a nice guy in person, however much I disliked him as Tory PM; Christine Hamilton was very funny and we had a couple of drinks together, despite me hating everything she and her husband stood for). But with Cameron, I couldn't think of anything to say that didn't begin with F. I didn't want to be near him or breath the same air as him.
Don't know where you are in the UK Tommy. I'm in a city in the Midlands. Totally agree about homelessness. Officially there are 50 homeless people in my city, but I walk past about 20 on my 15 minute walk to work, so there must be far more in reality. Some people have built a shelter from cardboard boxes under a bridge. I haven't seen that type of thing since I was in Detroit, and it took me back to the cardboard box cities in the 80s due to Thatcher.
I became quite good friends with one homeless guy. We'd sit and have a chat, which meant more to him than money. Just being treated as a normal human for a while made him cry with happiness. At Christmas, I decided I couldn't enjoy it if I didn't know he was safe, so managed to pay for him to go into a hostel. But he died a few months ago. Was in his 20s. His body was wrecked from how harsh life was on the streets. I felt so guilty I hadn't done more. But really I'm angry that people are put in that position. Yes, he made some bad decisions in life. But the point of welfare is to give people a safety net. As I see it, he died as a direct result of our f**king government.
I try to donate to food banks when I can. But they also make me angry - not the people who run them or use them - but the fact they even exist shows the government has failed. They've cut council budgets (especially in areas that do not vote Tory), and local government are in despair about what to do.
A friend of a friend is on dialysis, has cancer, seizures, cannot walk without assistance, has just had his welfare cut. I don't expect him to live more than another year or two, but you'd think he was getting better from what the assessment says. The stress of dealing with this is making him worse and giving him heart problems. So many of my friends are on zero-hour contracts and many of them are graduates. One friend got sanctioned by the job centre for missing a meeting, but the letter about the meeting was sent two days
after the meeting - even the date on the letter proves that. He will appeal, but while that goes on family and friends are having to help him out. Don't know what will happen when his rent is due. I guess he will end up on someone's sofa rather than the streets. How is any of that supposed to help him get a job?
Sorry that was a really long rant - I actually edited bits out to try and make it shorter!
All sounds very familiar barq,we may as well be living in the same place,i'm a bit further north than you.
Was in asda yesterday at one of those auto checkouts,two maybe late 50 year old guys were talking,heard one say,"This country is fucked."
I didn't say anything but totally knew how he felt,think another recession is going to hit folk,interest rates getting very low,if you have a pension plan that could end up worthless,if interest rates go below 0% banks will charge us to get money out,maybe its time to get it all out?
If i was in better health i would consider leaving the UK,i used to travel a lot,lived in Europe,wish i would have stayed out there now.
What bugs me sometimes is that a lot of folk just seem to be going around thinking everything is great here,time they took their heads out of the sand and woke up a bit and takea good look around.
I agree with your guys at Asda. The problem is it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. If most people think everything is going to hell in a handcart (to steal the Daily Mail's favourite expression) then, as night follows day, it will. At a national level, I really despair, so I'm trying to find local things to invest myself in. There was a lot of buzz a few year ago about "random acts of kindness", but there is actually scientific evidence to back up the fact it will make you feel better. (By random, they mean varied - not doing the same thing the whole time or the effect wears off.) Easier said than done of course. But while I'm really depressed by the state of things, and lack of credible political opposition, I'm not giving up just yet.
As I say, the idea of moving is tempting, but I've got too many ties to this country. It really would mean giving up everything. Most of my links are to the USA and whilst I enjoyed studying there, that was before the financial crisis and Trump.
This brexit thing is getting more hard to understand what is actually going on.
I think though correct if i am wrong,but,mps are now going to have a vote over wether this article 50 is done so we actually then are no longer part of the eu?
Have a look on the gaurdian site with the article called- High court Brexit ruling: what does it all mean?
Could mps who apparently the majority voted to remain stop article 50 being triggered?Are we going to actually be in the eu if they vote to not trigger article 50?
Typical of this country,more mess which is affecting us proles but not the rich elite.