Clearly not Charon. I'm actually glad I found this thread, I was planning to get a small sample this week. Think I'm gonna hold off for a while, try and have an honest conversation with a doc in the meantime.
My own personal demoms are the main reason I avoid opiates unless absolutely nessacary, and that's maybe once a year at most. I was hoping a weak (so I thought ) med like tram might be the answer for once a month or so, but not after learning as much as I have in the short time I've been here. I was a member of the forum I "transplanted from" for about 5 years, and never found info like this. Unless I missed it, this is a real eye opener. Definitely has changed my mind, guess I'll have to keep on chugging a bit longer on the pain train til I can find something suitable.
Thanks for the advice and the concern Charon,
Den
I think trams are helpful for my specific pain issues, but they really must be taken as prescribed. They were originally marketed to be like safe, non-addictive, stronger motrin, but are much more full of side effects than originally let on. Now, they are scheduled, so it seems like docs aren't handing them out like candy anymore. When I first started taking them, they gave me wonderful, relaxed energy and a feeling of wellbeing when I first started taking them. But, as with everything, I built a tolerance and it went away. So, I get how addictive they can be and watch my intake. I'm surprised a doc would prescribe them with ADs given the risk. Glad you found this forum so you can ask your doc questions and make an informed decision!
not much issue if used short term less than 1 year IMHO youll be fine, beyond getting off of trams with be very hard
My experience was as bad as Ladybugs. Just way too much SSRI's and it interfered with all my motor functions. A trip to the emergency room was considered. Just another word of caution: this must be taken exactly as prescribed. If one isn't working, don't take two - there isn't any more relief and your heading toward unpleasant side affects. As did I.
(03-27-2017, 01:48 AM)Charon Wrote: [ -> ]It's an SNRI as well as a pain med.
Which means when u do try to go off, the people experience unbelievable depression. I used to read that if one starts using xanax, one will never stop. i guess due to the withdrawal which can last for months. But, I have heard that withdrawal from tramadols is a big issue.
You already know you have an addictive personality. In the beginning, these pills might make you feel better. And, many thought they were harmless. But, they are an absolute bitch to withdraw from.
Yes, they can cause seizures. And, once one has a seizure, one is prone to seizures forever.
I never tried this medicine. But, I have read the posts and PMs of many whom have tried this.
It is a difficult medicine to become free from.
It is not as harmless as Big Pharma promised.
Agreed. I depend on it at this point. I do take days off however. I had addiction issues in the past and cannot take stronger pks for fear of falling down that rabbit hole. I know it sounds strange but the stronger ones had me making really awful financial decisions and just generally. Of course, we all like to think we have a handle on this stuff right but do we ever really? I'm grateful for this place... To be able to be honest and good info from everyone.
I took this med for a total of 1 1/2 years on and off and was able to receive it initially through NROPs for the first year before it became scheduled. They did a fantastic job at relieving my pain and giving me a tremendous amount of mental and physical energy. I never felt lethargic while taking them or had any negative sides to report WHILE they were in my system.
But after being on them for about 3 months I decided to start lowering my dose as I was taking at least 500 mg per day which is 100 mg above the 'limit' given by the FDA. (I can say some days I got closer to 1 whole gram and could still function but after 4-5 hours, if I was relaxing at home, I would begin nodding off.) My tapering was no problem, until I got down to less than 100 mg per day. Then I started experiencing only what I assumed were minor tremors. I could be sitting at my laptop like I am now and then suddenly multiple muscle groups would contract simultaneously to a significant degree, and then relax. I'm talking about my quads, hamstrings, abs, chest, biceps, hands all contracting in-sync, and HARD.
As the tramadol began leaving my system the tremors became more intense, to the point that if I was in an office having a face-to-face with a worker these contractions were extremely obvious to whom I was talking with. I probably looked like I had multiple sclerosis or early-onset Parkinson's since no-one knew about the pain meds I took.
Hot/cold flashes every couple hours, (looks real funny/odd to see a man wearing a sweatshirt in the summer time in TX even though I was spending 12-hr days in a building/lab), constant runny nose (easy to blame that on my 'bad allergies'), lost my appetite (this one I couldn't pass off to my colleagues or family because they used to see me eat 5 meals during my working hours and went down to 1 or 2), and then the depression came. Oh man, I can tell you for me, at least, those physical symptoms were NOTHING compared to the way I felt upstairs. Working in a place where your livelihood depends on creativity, constant enthusiasm, and lots of hard work amplified the degree in which the depression affected me.
I could do simple tasks but could not think 'outside the box' (not trying to sound cliché) and my work suffered from it. So I said f' it and went back up to 300-500mg per day and then a wave would hit me, my brain telling me "thank you, asshole, now we can get back to work".
To be honest I wouldn't call these side-effects but more like withdrawals because they only came once my body was accustomed to the drug and I started taking it away.
I've mentioned in other threads that I immediately switched to Norco's after 1 1/2 years while cutting all tramadol down to zero as the doc recommended. I still experienced tremors to a certain extent and minor depression for a couple of months even while on 30 mg/day hydrocodone. But because hydrocodone has always initially helped with my depressive mood, the effects were subdued to an extent.
I had been through hydrocodone withdrawal probably 3 times in the past before I started taking tramadol. W/D from hydrocodone after a year is a cake-walk compared to tramadol. No exaggeration here. You can read many, many websites dedicated to those still suffering from depression from semi-long term tramadol use. I can't even really say long-term because some people begin to feel it with high doses after only 3 months.
(As an aside, I had to take my dog to the vet last week because when I woke up, she was not able to put her front paw down and could barely walk. Went to the vet that same day-they gave her hydromorphone and ketamine as well as two other pain/anaesthetics to sedate her, and cut her nails that the vet believed had somehow become infected. When I came back to pick her up hours later I spoke with the vet and she had prescribed her an antibiotic to hopefully end the swelling and get rid of whatever infection she had, an NSAID for the inflammation of course, and holy geezus...50 50mg tramadol tabs to be administered 2 at a time, up to 3 times daily. Maybe it's just me, but I still recall a year ago when my father's dog was facing his last few months with stomach cancer, constantly whimpering from the pain. My father had to pull teeth with his vet to give a f' ing tramadol script for more than 100 mg a day!
My dog was fine the next day and her swollen paw had reduced in size by 50%. She refused the tramadol after her first dose I gave her and when she would see me preparing her food, if she saw me reaching for the bottles, she would refuse to eat...even with it hidden in chunks of beef! Whether it was how she felt, or the taste that repelled her it was clear she did not like it. I was able to crush up the NSAID and mix it in and her antibiotic had a sweet-smelling coating on the outside so it wasn't a problem, but if she smelled the tramadol, no eating....now there's a bottle of amneal mfg. trams in my cupboard. Will keep them for an emergency if one is to arise because I know it works well for me with pain. But seeing them sitting in the bottle is a nice reminder for myself of just how quickly my tramadol habit turned into a year-long nightmare.)
Sorry for the long post. I can very much sympathize with people going through withdrawals from tramadol. In my mind it doesn't fall into the opioid withdrawal category. I certainly believe that it belongs in a category of it's own because of it's dual mechanism of action. I would bet my money that tapentadol (Nucynta) would fall in here with tramadol as well but because the FDA scheduled it before it was ever on the market as a Scheduled 2 narcotic, it didn't get the chance that tramadol had to get dispensed like pez at its infancy.
Jmo, but if it were me I would throw away the trams. Why keep a temptation around when you know what it could do to you. I was an H addict, and although I believe I have the willpower not to go back to that nightmare, it's not worth testing. I've personally thrown away perks and other pks that were rxd for oral surgery or other issues. Used them as needed for a day or 2, then take some Advil and trash the rest. Jmho, I'm know it'll be hard to let me go, but it'll be a lot harder if u go back down that road.
Best,
Den
(03-27-2017, 12:31 AM)Denman66 Wrote: [ -> ]I had no idea trams could cause such issues. I've never taken them, I made the mistake of starting on very strong opiates. So I've always viewed trams as being not much more than an Advil. Not to be rude or insult anyone who uses them, I just always viewed them as weak or almost harmless.
Was recently thinking of trying them, as I don't wanna use the stronger ones. I'll have to do some reading and decide if it's even worth it. I've read they can lower seizure threshold and now I'm wondering if someone who's been on Diaz for over a decade like myself should even mess with it.
Does anyone here use a bz regularly and use trams for pain as needed?
As someone who was on much stronger opiates for years, I felt the same way. Trams were weak to me. However, when the docs stop prescribing the hard meds should I say frequently, I had to shake off those hard pain meds which was hard. I was in a tragic accident which left me in constant pain. My doc started prescribing Tyl 3 & Trams. This was a joke to me. After I shook those hard meds out my system, I gave the Trams a try. They work well for me. And I'm on some benzos as well. My body is handling the change well. I no longer think Trams are weak. You can take too much and give your body a scare. Now, I take them like I'm suppose to ...most of the time. Anyway, they work and you must take them seriously. Even more so when your on benzos. Now this is my story & my body. Just letting you know what I've been thru. But Trams are no punks!
(10-02-2016, 05:42 AM)Runabout Wrote: [ -> ] (08-26-2016, 06:19 PM)Tbaronfl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-26-2016, 05:56 PM)Charon Wrote: [ -> ]it is not safe to increase tram. if u have a tendency toward seizures, it will bring them on. once u have a seizure, they will come forever.
further, tramadol has proven to have a significant anti depressant effect. so, when one decides to go off them, they go into heavy depression.
Withdrawal from tram is also very difficult. Very. When u read enough posts on here, you will see what i mean in candid statements from members.
Many of us self diagnose to some extent. But, it is based on years of research. Years of medical care.
You cannot decide to add a medicine to your regimen, without some actual medical advice on this.
You must research the effects of those meds u mentioned, soma and valium.
You know u can never go off a benzo such as valium, once u start, without doing a taper? It can lead to death.
Research. No one will answer medical questions for you.
We are family here, but we are not your doctor and cannot advise accordingly.
You must research and decide for you. Your choices come with a lifetime of consequences. Make no mistake.
And, this is an horrific time to attempt to get safe meds.
Be careful.
Charon thanks for the reply. It's hard to figure out what's safe & what's not when some offer their opinions, even though they mean well. Thx for the honesty.
This is some of the best advise I have ever heard! I've heard it before and there is none better! just want to add my input on Tramadol, I've been prescribed them for years and it's a love hate relationship, they are the most finicky med I've ever dealt with, the more often you take them the less they work, the less they work the more often you need to take them! it's a hamster wheel effect not to mention the risk of seizures at higher dosses including daily dosses! myself I try to go at least one day a week (two is much better) only taking one 50mg, I'm prescribed up to 5 per day so one or none can be a big cutback from the normal routine, after that day I can tell that a single dose does really seem to help with the pain but after 3-4 days I'm right back to getting very little relief from them at all! they have worked OK for me but I don't recommend them to anybody with sever pain or moderate pain that can't have a day here and there to try to tough it out! there just don't seem to be any "good" answer for people in chronic pain!
Sounds to me like a simple "old school" mild opiate like codeine or hydr0 would be a much better choice. At least you can wd from those fairly easily even after long term use, and as far as I know there is no seizure risk attached or ssri component to it.
I'm still finding all this info so odd. Glad I found this thread tho.
Hey Den,
Your logic is sound. But as much as I despise this medicine, there are some unpredictable times if I am not careful, one wrong twist of the back can cause me to be bedridden for days. If that happens, I can't afford to miss days of work, I would be able to take some that would allow me to get to work for the day and get what I need to get done. Rather than try and get into a doctor in time and then get the meds I need. I'm always planning for JIC scenarios, just how my brain operates due to my back condition...
Now if there were norcos in there, THEN I would be tempted in taking some. That long post of mine probably indicated that I'm still addicted or tempted to taking them but there really is none. I just look at them and am amazed at what was once touted as being so safe has caused so many people, myself included, many problems when the supply was essentially unlimited.
Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate it brother.