Hey Fishfarmer. Traditionally our medicos are concerned about LDL Cholesterol - but Triglycerides are what's grabbing the attention these days.
Just like not
all cholesterol is bad, not
all LDL is bad. The size of the LDL particle is the determinant.
Big fluffy LDL seem pretty harmless (if not edging towards beneficial), but the small dense LDL particles are the type behind all the damage.
And what's the best predictor of high levels of nasty small dense LDL's? High Triglycerides.
Keep your triglycerides down and your heart and cardiovascular system will love you forever.
And the best way to lower Triglycerides? Say goodbye to sugar, fruit juice and simple carbs.
There's a growing school of thought that suggests Sugar is worse than booze for elevating triglycerides.
Keep eating all that fish (the Garlic and Brussels Sprouts are great for other reasons - keep chomping into them too.)
There's a healthy flow-on effect in supporting your liver by following those simple guidelines too.
For fantastic lectures on this, watch everything by famous Australian pathologist Dr Ken Sikaris on Youtube (might be a bit science heavy for some),
My personal fave
Cheers, low triglycerides and a health liver to you my friend,
R.
Great thread.
I am going to read those articles over the weekend so thanks Richard and Invisible for posting them.
There are a great many meds that damage the liver and renal systems. That clonazepam may be one of them I am going to look at but at my dose I am not greatly concerned.
However liver cells can regenerate if not too badly damaged-kidney cells do not keep that in mind esp if you have blood pressure issues.
This is the kind of thread that I enjoy was uncertain about posting links to medical journal articles now that I think it is allowed I will find some that have helped in the past-later all.
(03-10-2018, 08:22 AM)Richardg8092 Wrote: [ -> ]Both references point to one single paper published in 2009 which can be read in full here.
For mine, this paper is all over the place.
For instance, they site the case of clonazepam-induced liver injury (Am J Gastroenterol. 1988 May;83(5):576-7.)
But when you read that paper you find "It is suggested that the damage was of the metabolic idiosyncrasy type".
Back at our 2009 article and they say "idiosyncratic drug reactions do not occur in most patients at any dose"
So what are we left to conclude?
I'd say it would be something like "Clonazepam-induced liver injury does not occur in most patients at any dose".
Well, that's reassuring.
The 2009 paper also sites a mysterious paper "Chronic administration of antidepressant drugs including nitrazepam was reported to induce severe hepatic disorders" (Seki et al., 2008) But when you click on the link there's no mention of nitrazepam. Hmmmm.....
As far as I know, Nitrazepam isn't considered to be a member of any class of antidepressant drugs. They're just not "Same Same".
And to conclude my rant, comparing what happens inside a human to what happens in a cell culture incubated at 37°C in for 24hrs an atmosphere of 5% CO2 and 95% air is just plain crazy.
In their Discussion, the authors of the 2009 paper note"....it is very difficult to extrapolate from an in vitro study to in vivo in humans....."
Oh God, never a truer word were spoken!
I think we can relax. In the real world, (virtually) no-one's liver or kidney is going to collapse from a few doses of nitrazepam or clonazepam.
If u dont mind sharing what did it say about antidepressants and liver damage. Thanks
(03-30-2018, 03:06 PM)Ladybug Wrote: [ -> ]If u dont mind sharing what did it say about antidepressants and liver damage. Thanks
Here's a link to the article from 2013 - but if you just want the 'takeaways" -
"Asymptomatic mild abnormal liver function is detected in 0.5%−1% of patients treated with second-generation antidepressants such as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) and up to 3% of patients treated with monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors or tricyclic and tetracyclic antidepressants."
This means modern antidepressants are the most liver-friendly. i.e. citalopram, escitalopram, paroxetine, and fluvoxamine.
"The interval between treatment initiation and onset of liver injury is generally between several days and 6 months."
This means it would be good for
anyone who's been taking an antidepressant for 6 months to get a Liver Function (blood) Test.
Generally, doctor's love ordering LFT's - it won't raise an eyebrow for you to ask for one.
But be prepared to be told "You know women shouldn't drink more than 1 glass of wine a day."
Have the blood test. The last thing anyone needs is anxiety around their anti-depression meds.
(03-31-2018, 02:26 AM)Richardg8092 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2018, 03:06 PM)Ladybug Wrote: [ -> ]If u dont mind sharing what did it say about antidepressants and liver damage. Thanks
Here's a link to the article from 2013 - but if you just want the 'takeaways" -
"Asymptomatic mild abnormal liver function is detected in 0.5%−1% of patients treated with second-generation antidepressants such as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) and up to 3% of patients treated with monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors or tricyclic and tetracyclic antidepressants."
This means modern antidepressants are the most liver-friendly. i.e. citalopram, escitalopram, paroxetine, and fluvoxamine.
"The interval between treatment initiation and onset of liver injury is generally between several days and 6 months."
This means it would be good for anyone who's been taking an antidepressant for 6 months to get a Liver Function (blood) Test.
Generally, doctor's love ordering LFT's - it won't raise an eyebrow for you to ask for one.
But be prepared to be told "You know women shouldn't drink more than 1 glass of wine a day."
Have the blood test. The last thing anyone needs is anxiety around their anti-depression meds.
Thanks for the article. And if the doctor doesn’t want to order it, you can go on Life Extension Forum and order it yourself - not expensive.
My pleasure.
In theory you would give a copy of the ajp article to the doctor and they would thank you for supplying them with such valuable information.
That's the theory.
In practice (even though I have a
great doctor) I have certainly been given the "Uggghhh....some-one's been reading Doctor Google again" eye-roll look when it becomes clear that my appointment has been made only to request a specific pathology test. Funny really, the doc should be giving me a hug. He gets a payment of $40 (from the government) for ordering a pathology test. $40 for a 30 second consult. Not bad.
In Australia, even a general check-up from an unknown doctor at a Bulk Billing (free) Clinic would always include a Liver Function Test. I can't
imagine having to buy an LFT on-line.
But then, at the risk of being provocative, I also can't imagine why an industrialized country like the USA
doesn't have universal health care
