IOPList.Org

A bit tired today, my eyes have that awful kind of “pressure” behind them and/or “migraine aura” (if you’ve ever dealt with that you probably know exactly what I mean) and found myself not really in the mood for reading long threads, so I asked myself, what can I “bring to the table?” so to speak that doesn’t necessarily belong confined in the Vip section. And then it hit me just as hard as any panic attack, Anxiety!   - seriously, though I often try to make light of it (sometimes to better comedic effect than others) it’s honestly because I really only have two options available to me most days, to smile/laugh, or to frown/cry, and in my experience, the longer one “feels sorry for one’s self” the greater chance of slipping into serious clinical depression, which only compounds anxiety disorders.

That being said I have a TON of experience with shrinks;though not one, ever (and I made it a direct point to ask, once I felt I had developed enough of a “professional relationship” with them to get an honest and educated opinion) has told my symptoms indicated that I was the least bit “crazy”/“psychotic” - simply riddled with more neuroses than holes in a block of Swiss cheese  

All this being said I’ve accumulated many stories/experiences from seeing legitimate doctors & receiving a myriad of prescriptions, (when insurance or financial security would allow), as well as having had to resort to more affordable means of medication when I was fundamentally beyond “broke” and receiving multiple collection calls daily. 

I have learned and experienced MUCH as a result of seeking  “conventional” treatments in (therapy/psychiatry), by doing controlled, “original research”, reading peer-reviewed publications on google scholar, partaking in group therapy sessions, even having been enrolled in a stage 3 clinical trial - long story short I was in the 25% that received a total placebo, so I was ultimately just a “control”...

Regarding google scholar, which is a place that I have sent a great deal of time browsing, I am both aware and quite resentful of google’s overall tracking protocols... yet at the same time, scholar is SO advanced and legit for a totally free resource! - This statement really applies for anyone without access to grad/post-grad level medical databases, which are unquestionably more enlightening as well as more secure, alas I am not at University and I do not have 1000s a year to spend on subscription fees ?  

If one knows enough about the field and can sufficiently “translate” all of the technical/medical “jargon” present in said peer-edited studies, most of the answers to some surprisingly complex/specific questions regarding anxiety, medication & behavior therapy treatment(s), other lifestyle alternatives,, pharmacology/pharmacokinetics of the aforementioned medications available, longitudinal studies on some of the most commonly prescribed anxiety medications, etc. can all most often be “gleaned” by reading the first 1-3 paragraph(s) of the abstract alone - and if not, the body of the paper almost always contains the relevant information, provided that the study is specific enough to one’s inquiry, though again, lots of jargon is commonly used, both to sound educated & prestigious, as well as to obfuscate some things from the general public, as psychiatry is, after all, a money-making business ?‍♂️

If I can’t answer your question, it’s either because I honestly don’t know (which I will freely admit), or it’s because I cannot currently PM, and thus any correspondence must be carried out in public, which limits the “scope” of the conversation to some degree. In this instance I may reply very briefly, omitting whatever is not appropriate, or simply remark that I will have to PM you when I reach that level of access regarding site features.

Even though ideally I I try to be as much an “open book” as possible when speaking to others in such a community  (for I am not at all ashamed of who I am, or what I may suffer from, as I do not ever make my problems into trouble/responsibility for others, and at the very worst, I have a tendency to psychologically “punish” myself) I do have to adhere to the guidelines of the forum, and more importantly even, to my own “gut intuition” which has never steered me wrong yet, and in this case tells me that revealing too many “concrete” details/aspects of my life history so publicly is unwise, with the potential for more harm than good. 

Well now... ALL that being said, ask away!  And if you really want to have a private conversation, I have about 40 posts, and it’s my understanding that 50+ allows one to PM & respond in private with other 50+ posted members... a bit of patience can be a virtue for SO many of us in SO many situations, hehe ? 

& ultimately, if this thread gets overlooked, buried, or stricken for some reason, If I can just manage to answer just ONE earnest question honestly/correctly, or shed a new light on any subject of interest for just ONE PERSON who is TRULY struggling as I have so many times already in my comparatively short lifetime, then I feel satisfied that I have done my “job”, insofar as this thread title is concerned.  
Let us all speak (with common sense in mind) to those issues/situations which we already know best. Together, in this way, we can all collectively become more learned and wise regarding our OWN specific conditions, while simultaneously encountering new information which may be critical to helping OTHERS better understand their OWN hurdles, thereby enriching the community & it’s knowledge base as a whole!

TL;DR
Ask me ANYTHING about anxiety disorders, treatments, medications, my own experiences, etc. etc.
essentially even tangentially related to any of these topics, so long as they are appropriate for public discussion and do not violate any of the core rules of the forum.
And with that, have a lovely night ladies and gentlemen! Thank you for taking the time to read and/or respond to this thread, I’m trying very hard to create some meaningful posts that are appropriate for the public forum and not just pure “filler” to try to reach some threshold in record time - I think “real” truly do recognize “real”, and that people can see right through that to the point where it seems like a disservice to all to even TRY and “game” the system - especially when it is so clearly crafted/maintained for the purpose of benefiting those who *legitimately* need support, wisdom, and guidance, or perhaps just a sympathetic ear to turn to when the world gets overwhelming. Very sincerely,
-Samson ?

Wow-now that is a perfect post I am beside myself my envy.  Could not write that myself.

I too have been a lab rat for the shrinks-big pharma and taught my self the same way by reading good peer-reviewed medical articles and I chime in when I can- just not that good a typist.

When I am able I can also answer questions re meds-current treatment and good journal articles.

Awesome post and offer of assistance-congrats.

---

Example of me being me tried to edit above and logged myself out...grr

Psyboi-I have tried "natural" myself but you must realize that many natural options are not fda approved or really peer-reviewed to my liking and companies selling this stuff are not lab tested or have fda approval.

That being said omega 3-vitamin complexes by reputable companies are worth looking into but costly.

Using "pams" is nothing to be ashamed of and they have been demonized and looked down on by society and big-pharma does not make money from them as they are no longer under patent.  Beware the new and improved-esp when the old and proven is very often better and have a history.  What a world...

Samson, That is truly impressive!

You WILL have those 50 post in no time flat... Now I'm just a country boy, but I believe that you indeed
know exactly what you sir are talking about... I tip my hat (tipping hat )

I believe that YOU sir are a very wonderful asset to our small community we have here ...

Again, I appreciate your wisdom and experience, also the will to share those experiences in order to help others..

I salute you my friend...

Ice

I have experienced a lot of trouble in the past couple of years with escalating addiction issues. For that reason, I've been scared of trying benzos (not to mention the fact that no one will prescribe them to me.) I find that daily meditation, yoga, and cardio have helped alleviate some anxiety. Problem is: when I'm really feeling anxious or depressed, it's hard to work up the motivation to keep those things going. Have you found those tactics helpful to you, Samson? And if so, how do you maintain the motivation to keep them up enough to prevent the anxiety from taking over?

Thanks, Chinchillin777, that is a great post!

Do your anxiety problems include things on the "OCD spectrum"? That is, obsessive-compulsive thoughts and behaviors, which can including intrusive thoughts that cause fear and ritual behaviors that serve (temporarily) to reduce anxiety, such as repeatedly cleaning things, counting rituals, repeatedly checking things, hording excessive amounts of stuff, and pulling hair or picking at the skin. Body Dysmorphic behavior and certain eating disorders seem to be caused by something related to OCD, too. I have OCD and am interested in talking with others about the problem, and what works or doesn't work to help keep it under control.

(09-22-2019, 03:27 AM)Psyboi Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-22-2019, 02:56 AM)Chinchillin777 Wrote: [ -> ]A bit tired today, my eyes have that awful kind of “pressure” behind them and/or “migraine aura” (if you’ve ever dealt with that you probably know exactly what I mean) and found myself not really in the mood for reading long threads, so I asked myself, what can I “bring to the table?” so to speak that doesn’t necessarily belong confined in the Vip section. And then it hit me just as hard as any panic attack, Anxiety!   - seriously, though I often try to make light of it (sometimes to better comedic effect than others) it’s honestly because I really only have two options available to me most days, to smile/laugh, or to frown/cry, and in my experience, the longer one “feels sorry for one’s self” the greater chance of slipping into serious clinical depression, which only compounds anxiety disorders.

That being said I have a TON of experience with shrinks;though not one, ever (and I made it a direct point to ask, once I felt I had developed enough of a “professional relationship” with them to get an honest and educated opinion) has told my symptoms indicated that I was the least bit “crazy”/“psychotic” - simply riddled with more neuroses than holes in a block of Swiss cheese  

All this being said I’ve accumulated many stories/experiences from seeing legitimate doctors & receiving a myriad of prescriptions, (when insurance or financial security would allow), as well as having had to resort to more affordable means of medication when I was fundamentally beyond “broke” and receiving multiple collection calls daily. 

I have learned and experienced MUCH as a result of seeking  “conventional” treatments in (therapy/psychiatry), by doing controlled, “original research”, reading peer-reviewed publications on google scholar, partaking in group therapy sessions, even having been enrolled in a stage 3 clinical trial - long story short I was in the 25% that received a total placebo, so I was ultimately just a “control”...

Regarding google scholar, which is a place that I have sent a great deal of time browsing, I am both aware and quite resentful of google’s overall tracking protocols... yet at the same time, scholar is SO advanced and legit for a totally free resource! - This statement really applies for anyone without access to grad/post-grad level medical databases, which are unquestionably more enlightening as well as more secure, alas I am not at University and I do not have 1000s a year to spend on subscription fees ?  

If one knows enough about the field and can sufficiently “translate” all of the technical/medical “jargon” present in said peer-edited studies, most of the answers to some surprisingly complex/specific questions regarding anxiety, medication & behavior therapy treatment(s), other lifestyle alternatives,, pharmacology/pharmacokinetics of the aforementioned medications available, longitudinal studies on some of the most commonly prescribed anxiety medications, etc. can all most often be “gleaned” by reading the first 1-3 paragraph(s) of the abstract alone - and if not, the body of the paper almost always contains the relevant information, provided that the study is specific enough to one’s inquiry, though again, lots of jargon is commonly used, both to sound educated & prestigious, as well as to obfuscate some things from the general public, as psychiatry is, after all, a money-making business ?‍♂️

If I can’t answer your question, it’s either because I honestly don’t know (which I will freely admit), or it’s because I cannot currently PM, and thus any correspondence must be carried out in public, which limits the “scope” of the conversation to some degree. In this instance I may reply very briefly, omitting whatever is not appropriate, or simply remark that I will have to PM you when I reach that level of access regarding site features.

Even though ideally I I try to be as much an “open book” as possible when speaking to others in such a community  (for I am not at all ashamed of who I am, or what I may suffer from, as I do not ever make my problems into trouble/responsibility for others, and at the very worst, I have a tendency to psychologically “punish” myself) I do have to adhere to the guidelines of the forum, and more importantly even, to my own “gut intuition” which has never steered me wrong yet, and in this case tells me that revealing too many “concrete” details/aspects of my life history so publicly is unwise, with the potential for more harm than good. 

Well now... ALL that being said, ask away!  And if you really want to have a private conversation, I have about 40 posts, and it’s my understanding that 50+ allows one to PM & respond in private with other 50+ posted members... a bit of patience can be a virtue for SO many of us in SO many situations, hehe ? 

& ultimately, if this thread gets overlooked, buried, or stricken for some reason, If I can just manage to answer just ONE earnest question honestly/correctly, or shed a new light on any subject of interest for just ONE PERSON who is TRULY struggling as I have so many times already in my comparatively short lifetime, then I feel satisfied that I have done my “job”, insofar as this thread title is concerned.  
Let us all speak (with common sense in mind) to those issues/situations which we already know best. Together, in this way, we can all collectively become more learned and wise regarding our OWN specific conditions, while simultaneously encountering new information which may be critical to helping OTHERS better understand their OWN hurdles, thereby enriching the community & it’s knowledge base as a whole!

TL;DR
Ask me ANYTHING about anxiety disorders, treatments, medications, my own experiences, etc. etc.
essentially even tangentially related to any of these topics, so long as they are appropriate for public discussion and do not violate any of the core rules of the forum.
And with that, have a lovely night ladies and gentlemen! Thank you for taking the time to read and/or respond to this thread, I’m trying very hard to create some meaningful posts that are appropriate for the public forum and not just pure “filler” to try to reach some threshold in record time - I think “real” truly do recognize “real”, and that people can see right through that to the point where it seems like a disservice to all to even TRY and “game” the system - especially when it is so clearly crafted/maintained for the purpose of benefiting those who *legitimately* need support, wisdom, and guidance, or perhaps just a sympathetic ear to turn to when the world gets overwhelming. Very sincerely,
-Samson ?

Hello Samson, After reading your long thread and correct me if I a wrong, I have not been able to find a simple solution. Benzos seem to help me, but at the same time I want to try natural methods. Therapists and doctors only give me advice that I am already aware of. What has worked for you the best when it comes to anxiety, and I mean specifically silly anxiety such as meeting inlays, or having heart palpitations prior to work meetings? What do you recommend as perhaps various natural alternatives aside from Valerian root? You seem to have much more experience than me! Sadly anxiety gets in the way o natura medial doctors, but it doesn't dosnt help all.

Thanks!

Hey Psyboi, sorry it’s been a few months, took a break from most of my internet activities. At any rate, I would agree with your perception that there is simply no “magic bullet” of a
solution, it is more of an ongoing effort to stay in control mentally/physically without taking on too much psychological burdens.

If you are looking primarily for non RX solution, some of the best I have found are OTC supplements including Melatonin (great for setting/resetting your daily routine, not as great for
inducing sleep), as well as nightly doses of GABA & 5-htp supplements (the former increases the overall amount of freely available GABA within your brain - without incurring the dependence liability that benzos create by potentiating the effects of the existing GABA neurotransmitter itself, while the latter promotes higher levels of serotonin by providing the brain/body with an essential building block in serotonin synthesis). I find taking all 3 together (or even just GABA/5-HTP) in the evenings promotes rest/relaxation/a better sense of “wellbeing”, however, I will add that none of these compounds on their own (or even all together) is going to work for critical/acute anxiety like a panic attack - unfortunately the only medications for this are prescription.

As far as non-medical approaches are concerned, I find listening to light orchestral music while getting ready for bed puts me in a calmer state of mind, and I ALWAYS sleep with a white-noise machine in my room (they can be purchased on amazon for 35-50$ and are exceptionally useful during sleep, meditation, etc. as they provide a rather loud, yet completely “neutral” noise that muffles and sudden, jarring, or otherwise unpredictable/unwanted sounds, greatly increasing sensory deprivation during sleep/relaxation, which I would say l, for me, is the most important non-drug component to my mental wellbeing. One more thing to add to this - lighting, particularly in the hours just prior to bed should be kept low, and if watching TV or using an electronic device, the brightness should be dimmed as much as possible. This has a far greater effect of sleep/wake and by extension, level of anxiety, than one would initially realize. 

Finally, insofar as addressing panic attacks and very severe anxiety without medication, my best advice would be to try to meditate daily, focusing on your breathing and steady inner monologue/mantra, not allowing your mind to spiral “out of crontrol” with all of the “what ifs?”. Try this first when you are only mildly anxious, and slowly work your way up, using the whatever mental techniques work best for you, until your gain the ability to essentially “talk yourself down” from a panic attack with that strongly reinforced inner monologue.

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(09-24-2019, 10:14 AM)MrFussbudget Wrote: [ -> ]I have experienced a lot of trouble in the past couple of years with escalating addiction issues.  For that reason, I've been scared of trying benzos (not to mention the fact that no one will prescribe them to me.)  I find that daily meditation, yoga, and cardio have helped alleviate some anxiety.  Problem is: when I'm really feeling anxious or depressed, it's hard to work up the motivation to keep those things going.  Have you found those tactics helpful to you, Samson?  And if so, how do you maintain the motivation to keep them up enough to prevent the anxiety from taking over?

Hi MrFussbudget, I’m sorry to hear that you’ve been struggling for a while, and it is indeed an impediment of sorts that addiction is a concern, as the most highly effective (at least in the short term) treatments do tend to be controlled RX substances.
Just to clarify, when you say addiction, do you mean physical issues regarding increased tolerance/dependence/consumption in an attempt to address the anxiety, or is there also a “mental” component actively encouraging you to consume more even when you are not particularly anxious/for recreation?
The reason I ask is that I’ve never known anyone with severe, chronic anxiety, who was prescribed RX medications to limit their anxiety and did not develop a physical dependence (as illustrated either by withdrawal symptoms upon cessation, or increased tolerance to the medication’s effects/side effects). While physical drug dependence is not ideal, it can often be the “lesser of two evils” in severe, “quality of life” situations, and does not, by itself, indicate that the user has a problem with addiction.
Its only when someone takes the medication recreationally (to enjoy they way it makes them feel), mixes it intentionally with alcohol or other drugs as explicitly told not to by the pharmacy, or begins escalating their dosage beyond what they are prescribed in an attempt to “self-medicate” an issue that’s not under control/is spiraling out of hand. 

All this being said, I may not have the right answer for you, as I belong to the former category (I take RX anxiety medications, but I have never had a trouble with taking too many, “enjoying” the way they make me feel, etc. at best they do what they are meant to: silence or greatly diminish anxiety, temporarily.

Personally, I find a combination of drug and non-drug approaches to work best, for those times you describe, when you feel too anxious or depressed to “go on”, that is usually when I resort to taking one of several benzodiazepines I am prescribed (it varies depending on the time of day, magnitude of situation, whether I need to be able to drive or not, etc.). I do not take them “round the clock” as I have found (what many of you I’m sure already know) that doing so only rapidly builds up a tolerance and renders said benzos ineffective when you really “need them most”. As mentioned in a reply to Psyboi, I employ a number of non RX solutions to try to combat my anxiety, most notably, GABA/5-HTP at bedtime, (occasionally melatonin as well if my sleep rhythm is getting out of whack), as well as practice daily meditation (~20 minutes each morning usually) with a white noise machine (as well as sleep with one).

I know you were probably hoping for a better answer than that, but “in a pinch” I do generally have to resort to RX medication. One possible solution for you if benzos are totally out of the question might be medical cannabis.

I know this is not available to everyone, depending upon where you live, but honestly, now that it is legal in my area, it has become my #1 “go-to” medication for stress, pain, insomnia, etc. as it has such little dependence liability and a very profound, short-acting effect that can absolutely bring one “out of a slump” by shifting one’s perspective, however, use caution, as certain strains (indica dominant) actually tend to promote lethargy, so unless you’re looking to go to sleep, MMJ might not be the best “motivator”, though, if you’re crippled by anxiety and feel “stuck”, it may enable you to feel just good enough to take the regular steps that you would in addressing your anxiety/depression, helping you get over that “hopeless” hump.

Forgive me if I mentioned anything prohibited in this post, just trying to give as comprehensive an answer as possible.

best wishes,
sincerely,
-Samson

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(09-25-2019, 10:53 PM)Peony13 Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks, Chinchillin777, that is a great post!

Do your anxiety problems include things on the "OCD spectrum"? That is, obsessive-compulsive thoughts and behaviors, which can including intrusive thoughts that cause fear and ritual behaviors that serve (temporarily) to reduce anxiety, such as repeatedly cleaning things, counting rituals, repeatedly checking things, hording excessive amounts of stuff, and pulling hair or picking at the skin. Body Dysmorphic behavior and certain eating disorders seem to be caused by something related to OCD, too. I have OCD and am interested in talking with others about the problem, and what works or doesn't work to help keep it under control.

Hi, Peony13
why YES they most CERTAINLY, ABSOLUTELY do include virtually everything you have mentioned (with the exception of hoarding, because I am too OCD/neat lmao). All of the neuroses you mention are scientifically recognized as statistically co-morbid, meaning if you suffer (especially severely) from one of the aforementioned issues, your chances of struggling with those other adjacent issues goes up dramatically. I would be happy to talk with you one on one about any of the questions/concerns that you're mentioned, my degree of experience/trouble with them, any anything that has potentially helped me minimize said neuroses ?

Unfortunately I have been away for a while (got spooked by a customs inspection... one can only imagine the anxiety, right? ?) so I am still a few posts shy of being able to PM.

I should hit that threshold rather soon though, and I’ll be happy to reach out to you privately as soon as I have the ability. Best wishes,
-Samson

(09-24-2019, 10:14 AM)MrFussbudget Wrote: [ -> ]I have experienced a lot of trouble in the past couple of years with escalating addiction issues. For that reason, I've been scared of trying benzos (not to mention the fact that no one will prescribe them to me.) I find that daily meditation, yoga, and cardio have helped alleviate some anxiety. Problem is: when I'm really feeling anxious or depressed, it's hard to work up the motivation to keep those things going. Have you found those tactics helpful to you, Samson? And if so, how do you maintain the motivation to keep them up enough to prevent the anxiety from taking over?

I will be honest, most of my anxiety onset is during work hours and very very large social gatherings also when something traumatic pops up in my head. I have noticed Yoga meditation etc, feels/helps, but at the same time, I cannot stand up in the middle of a big important meeting and start doing yoga, therefore I have stated this to my doc many times, and finally got benz0s prescribed to me.

To be honest, I would love to stay natural and keep natural at all times, but with how society demands us to work/go on with life, I find it sometimes impossible, since i work in tech - perhaps in some hipster startup company.