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+--- Thread: MoneyGram/Western Union and tor (/showthread.php?tid=1427)
RE: MoneyGram/Western Union and tor - graviedone - 05-24-2016
(05-24-2016, 10:36 PM)bio2016 Wrote: I know a lot of people worried about it ...but i have never heard about people being arrested at MG ot Western union location ..,they might block your transfer ,they can block you from using their servicies (you get more chances to get the transfer blocked online then in person by the way ),in the agent location, they might say your transfer wasnt approved ,but thats the worst that you are facing ...but if you are using a Fake ID it is a legal offence,it better to just find somebody who can send your transfer for you from time to time ,that way you give your name a break in a money gramm system and will not be blocked from sending ,i ve been doing it for 10 years now and never had a problem
getting banned by WU or MG would be a shocker for most peeps here, I know it would crush me.
Piggy backing off other people is not a bad idea, i got a couple I can think of.
RE: MoneyGram/Western Union and tor - bio2016 - 05-24-2016
And in case if transfer is blocked, just a get a different recepient name (it better not be mohammed,mahmud,not the arabic name ) and somebody else who can send the money and dont use your own name from which a transfer been blocked for for some time,let it rest for some time ,also wouldnt reccomend to send to Pakistan,there is a rumour and it might be a real one that they are keeping an eye on any name who once had anything to do with Pakistan ..
RE: MoneyGram/Western Union and tor - Lunar - 05-25-2016
(03-13-2016, 05:19 PM)anxiety_sucks Wrote:(01-22-2016, 05:01 AM)OmarLittle Wrote: One nice thing about paying online via WU is you gain points, and you can use those points to waive the fees they charge to send the money! I never knew what WU Rewards/Points were until I saw I had about 120 of them. I can send a few payments without paying the $20 charge.
just caught this, is that online only?
No, using your phone number or email you can get the points in person.
But don't be fooled, promotions like this are implemented purely for marketing and data collection means. Every store now wants you to sign up for their discount cards or rewards programs and some even go so far as to require participation in said program to buy publically advertised products at their sale price. Your ph #, DOB, address, your shopping history, and most importantly your likes and dislikes is very valuable information to these corporate conglomerates. They used to pay good money for it, peaple made full time careers out of filling out product surveys and questionnaires, and now-a-days we give it all away for free for a few pennies off of a stick of deoderant. Or after we enjoy, videos, music, and articles on line we check whether we liked it or disliked it.
Sure, on the surface, this info is simply used to better serve the consumer. But I can't help but think there is also a more nefarious reason for the recent rise in the data collection phenomenon.
Just some thoughts. With that being said I recently signed up in person for the my WU rewards (or whatever it's called) in person.
RE: MoneyGram/Western Union and tor - Lunar - 05-25-2016
I thought I should add that I signed up not for the points but so the system would remember my address.
I had some other tips to share, some of which might help those that are getting declined.
Tip 1: Go in person to a location heavily populate by either immigrants or families likely to have relatives that are incarcerated. Every city has them and everybody knows where they are. (This has been mentioned before, thanks OP)
Tip 2: Make sure that location has automated terminals. Most probably do now a days.
Tip 3: USE ROUND NUMBERS. Western Union is for sending money to friends and family members, NOT for purchases. I mean, come on, how many times to you wire a family member in need of money $287.62? No, you don't, you send them an even $300.
Anecdote: Many years ago, when I was young and stupid and had no idea forums like this existed, I ordered from iops, taking not a single step towards anonymity. I used WU/MG online and my personal credit card to send random amounts of money all over the world to people with names and in countries and cities I had difficulty pronouncing. Inevitably I'd get a call from a very polite WU/MG rep asking me how I know Jinglemohobobadi Ursaminor? I'd reply in as confident a voice as I could muster, "Oh, me and Bobble-de-gook go way back, Bimble Jinglemodda needed some pesos so out of the kindness of my heart I sent him exactly 189.34 pesos." The kind rep inquired a few more questions and the conversation, that I thought well was over. But, if my payment wasn't declined it arrived with a LL from the LE.
So, work with your vendor by adding or subtracting a little to get to that nice round number.
Tip 4: (This one is especially useful for those who've been declined.) Create a Legal Entity like an LLC, Ficticious Name or Trust and get a phone number and email for it. voice.google.com offers free phone numbers. Setting up legal entities is easy, an LLC for example can be created in 10 minutes online. If you have another 10 minutes to spare you can even get it an EIN (it's like an SSN or SIN for ficticius entinites) and a bank account. Then when you go in person to the WU in a sketchy neighborhood and sit at the terminal, these are the credintials you use. In most cases because you are in a sketchy neighborhood finalizing the transaction with a hourly employee who hates their job and is more interested in the slowly moving clock than protocol or procedure, your business should be conducted without problem and you'll be out of there in less than 10 minutes.
But if the clerk does give you the third degree, you can either have your LLC's documentation ready to present, or what would probably work better is to simply let the clerk know that you're just a secratary and haven't the foggiest why your boss told you to come dome here and send the money. Or even better if you are operating out of a trust(which by the way is free and easier to set up than an LLC) you still play dumb but add that if she really wants to know politely inform her that she will need to her questions in the form of a written proposal to address the board of trustees, making sure to cite any and all legal authority to make such inquiries. Thank her kindly and while you play with your phone as if you are scheduling a hearing ask her if she will be attending in person or skype? Either way the cost is the same? (Forgive my rambling, I have fun with this kind of stuff.)
Tip 5: Have another mailing address that is not where you lay your head down at night. Mailbox Etc and UPS stores are nice because they are private street addresses and look like Suites. A lot of services don't like PO boxes but in most cases you can get around the automated check by placing the Post Office address in line one and the PObox number in the optional field, as well as other ways I'm sure.
Tip 6: USE CASH - no explanation needed for this one.
I think most of these tips have been mentioned in part on this thread and I'm sure the others have probably been discussed at one time or another elsewhere. Many thanks to the original posters.
I know the above sounds like a lot of work but not all 6 tips need implementation, though every little bit helps. But let's be honest governments the world over are going or have gone bankrupt, they are desperate for money, and let's face it a primary source of governmental income is taxation by citation. (I hate to utter such a nihilistic point of view but most beat cops in the US spend probaly 75% of their day as nothing more than a revenue collector) The Govt. is not stupid, they've been doing this a long time, they go after sure things, or as we've been calling it "low hanging fruit," especially if the fruit has a lot of assets to seize.
RE: MoneyGram/Western Union and tor - bio2016 - 05-26-2016
(05-25-2016, 08:05 PM)Lunar Wrote: I thought I should add that I signed up not for the points but so the system would remember my address.100% agree my friend....100% i dont have an option to give rep points,but i def would love to give some
I had some other tips to share, some of which might help those that are getting declined.
Tip 1: Go in person to a location heavily populate by either immigrants or families likely to have relatives that are incarcerated. Every city has them and everybody knows where they are. (This has been mentioned before, thanks OP)
Tip 2: Make sure that location has automated terminals. Most probably do now a days.
Tip 3: USE ROUND NUMBERS. Western Union is for sending money to friends and family members, NOT for purchases. I mean, come on, how many times to you wire a family member in need of money $287.62? No, you don't, you send them an even $300.
Anecdote: Many years ago, when I was young and stupid and had no idea forums like this existed, I ordered from iops, taking not a single step towards anonymity. I used WU/MG online and my personal credit card to send random amounts of money all over the world to people with names and in countries and cities I had difficulty pronouncing. Inevitably I'd get a call from a very polite WU/MG rep asking me how I know Jinglemohobobadi Ursaminor? I'd reply in as confident a voice as I could muster, "Oh, me and Bobble-de-gook go way back, Bimble Jinglemodda needed some pesos so out of the kindness of my heart I sent him exactly 189.34 pesos." The kind rep inquired a few more questions and the conversation, that I thought well was over. But, if my payment wasn't declined it arrived with a LL from the LE.
So, work with your vendor by adding or subtracting a little to get to that nice round number.
Tip 4: (This one is especially useful for those who've been declined.) Create a Legal Entity like an LLC, Ficticious Name or Trust and get a phone number and email for it. voice.google.com offers free phone numbers. Setting up legal entities is easy, an LLC for example can be created in 10 minutes online. If you have another 10 minutes to spare you can even get it an EIN (it's like an SSN or SIN for ficticius entinites) and a bank account. Then when you go in person to the WU in a sketchy neighborhood and sit at the terminal, these are the credintials you use. In most cases because you are in a sketchy neighborhood finalizing the transaction with a hourly employee who hates their job and is more interested in the slowly moving clock than protocol or procedure, your business should be conducted without problem and you'll be out of there in less than 10 minutes.
But if the clerk does give you the third degree, you can either have your LLC's documentation ready to present, or what would probably work better is to simply let the clerk know that you're just a secratary and haven't the foggiest why your boss told you to come dome here and send the money. Or even better if you are operating out of a trust(which by the way is free and easier to set up than an LLC) you still play dumb but add that if she really wants to know politely inform her that she will need to her questions in the form of a written proposal to address the board of trustees, making sure to cite any and all legal authority to make such inquiries. Thank her kindly and while you play with your phone as if you are scheduling a hearing ask her if she will be attending in person or skype? Either way the cost is the same? (Forgive my rambling, I have fun with this kind of stuff.)
Tip 5: Have another mailing address that is not where you lay your head down at night. Mailbox Etc and UPS stores are nice because they are private street addresses and look like Suites. A lot of services don't like PO boxes but in most cases you can get around the automated check by placing the Post Office address in line one and the PObox number in the optional field, as well as other ways I'm sure.
Tip 6: USE CASH - no explanation needed for this one.
I think most of these tips have been mentioned in part on this thread and I'm sure the others have probably been discussed at one time or another elsewhere. Many thanks to the original posters.
I know the above sounds like a lot of work but not all 6 tips need implementation, though every little bit helps. But let's be honest governments the world over are going or have gone bankrupt, they are desperate for money, and let's face it a primary source of governmental income is taxation by citation. (I hate to utter such a nihilistic point of view but most beat cops in the US spend probaly 75% of their day as nothing more than a revenue collector) The Govt. is not stupid, they've been doing this a long time, they go after sure things, or as we've been calling it "low hanging fruit," especially if the fruit has a lot of assets to seize.
RE: MoneyGram/Western Union and tor - Lunar - 05-26-2016
Wow! I just noticed the ridiculous amount of formatting errors and typos in my above post. Haha, I swear it looked beautiful in the little box as I typed. I guess that's what the "Preview Post" button is for. Haha, I'll be sure to use it in the future. Forgive me.
Oh well, there was a part of the story supporting Tip 3 that I forgot until just this morning anyway.
Maybe I'm being paranoid but I think after a few of those uncomfortable telephone calls with WU/MG representatives, they actually started tipping off the LE. I don't know exactly how they were able to do it, but after that point every time I used the service to send money to an IOP, I'd get an LL. I even tried having things sent to friend's addresses, but regardless, the result was the same, an LL from the LE. I had just about given up on IOPs all together but then I found one that accepted payment directly. They were a little pricey and made you jump through a bunch of hoops to become a member but every order was received. I think they're closed now.
Another point I wanted to add is about Bitcoin. I know we've talked about it in depth elsewhere if not on this very same thread. But all of these problems people are having with WU/MG could be completely avoided if only the vendors would accept Bitcoin.
As for Tip 4, using a legal entity, it really is simple, you don't need a lawyer, and it can actually be quite fun. Did you know that if you live in a country with a central bank, which is just about all of them now a days, you already have a Legal Fictitious Entity? Anyone with a government issued birth certificate owns and operates a fictitious entity. Most people don't know because the name of the Legal Entity and the name your mother gave you appear so similar that whenever they see the legal entity's name people just assume that they are referring to them. It's how the whole system works. But this is a rabbit hole best reserved for another thread.
Another Tip for Tip 4 would be to name your newly created fictitious entity something worldly and/or charitable. Get creative, this will help not only at WU/MG but at customs too. Call it "The Global Project LLC," or "Abundant Planet," or even "Food for the Unfed World, a Private Trust Initiative."
The point I'm trying to make is that setting up and operating through fictitious entities is not only easy, but it affords one innumerable protections over the traditional way of operating through the fictitious entity who's name so closely resembles your own.
Please do not misconstrue this as legal advice, I'm not a lawyer and wouldn't be a lawyer even if I was paid ten million dollars. That said, I'd be happy to discuss this topic further and attempt to answer any questions as the self-educated lay person that I am.
RE: MoneyGram/Western Union and tor - Raven - 05-28-2016
I recently signed up with WU and sent money to P online. Credit card payment was immediately denied, however, payment from my bank account was immediately approved. No questions asked.
If sending $ to P, then amounts less than $500 are not likely to be flagged (IMHO).
Sending $ to this area of the world is surely being watched though, so proceed with caution.
Raven
RE: MoneyGram/Western Union and tor - IceCreamMan - 05-28-2016
thanks for the information Lunar...very helpful
RE: MoneyGram/Western Union and tor - Lunar - 05-31-2016
(05-28-2016, 03:40 AM)Raven Wrote: I recently signed up with WU and sent money to P online. Credit card payment was immediately denied, however, payment from my bank account was immediately approved. No questions asked.
If sending $ to P, then amounts less than $500 are not likely to be flagged (IMHO).
Sending $ to this area of the world is surely being watched though, so proceed with caution.
Raven
You're absolutely right. Whenever sending money to certain areas I am always reminded of the fear porn propaganda the establishment was pushing after 9/11,
(Read the following quote in a really low and evil sounding voice)
"If you buy drugs, you support terrorism."
As we know this is all total BS, because the "real" terrorists is the very same establishment that peddled the fear porn to begin with. The establishment and the propaganda they use has come along way since the father of modern propaganda, Edward Bernays, made it popular and socially acceptable form women to smoke cigarettes.
But that "drugs support terrorism" crap really pissed me off because it was primarily aimed at youth buying a little pot. Most likely grown in Mexico and smuggled in by the CIA.
(05-28-2016, 01:52 PM)IceCreamMan Wrote: thanks for the information Lunar...very helpful
You're welcome
RE: MoneyGram/Western Union and tor - Jmoney12345 - 06-01-2016
Agreed.. and thanks as well lunar.. very well written if I must say so myself!!!