10-01-2016, 05:25 PM
After reading through the thread "Money Gram/Western Union and tor", I feel many are still having issues that might be resolved by implementing either one or more of the tips many members have posted there. But as the thread grew I feel like some of that advice got lost amongst the ever growing conversation. Below I've consolidated, updated, and in some cases edited for clarity the advice offered throughout that seventeen page, and still growing, thread.
Thank you Grandote, Zander, Stripers, TheMadHatter420 Bishop, Breacher and all the others, I fail to mention by name, that made recommendation regarding alternate forms of payment and other suggestions for WU/MG relief.
Tip 1: USE CASH - no explanation needed for this one.
Tip 2: USE ROUND NUMBERS. Western Union is for sending money to friends and family members, NOT for purchases. I mean, come on, how many times to you wire a family member in need of money $287.62? No, you don't, you send them an even $300.
So, if this means working with your vendor by adding or subtracting a little to get to that nice round number, so be it. Bishop mentioned a good idea if the aforementioned doesn't appeal to you. To get to that glorious round number see if your vendor will hold the remaining balance on account for use towards future purchases. I would imagine most here are already in regular communication with their vendor, so inquiries of this sort should not be a problem. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Tip 3: Credit Cards, debit cards, and easy online payments leave paper trails and because of all the fear surrounding identity theft and CC scams, payments of this nature go through more stringent security checks than cash. Save yourself the hassle, Go in person! Find a location heavily populate by either immigrants or families likely to have relatives that are incarcerated. Every city has them and everybody knows where they are. The WU/MG services are used often at these places and the clerk handling the transaction has probably developed an efficiency that does not include giving you a hard time. (This has been mentioned before, thanks OP) Even if it's a CVS or Walgreen's doesn't matter. I hate to stereotype but generally speaking the people who work at these types of franchises, especially those located in rough neighborhoods, are, generally speaking only there to collect a pay check and probably pay little attention to the training they received with regards to WU/MG aside from taking your money and wishing you a nice day. Also, it doesn't hurt to be a little friendly, ask about their day, and if applicable compliment their appearance. Which brings me to my next point, dress nice, compared to their regular clientele, a tucked in collared shirt (or the female equivalent) is usually all it takes to remove suspicion and provide an air of confidence. Your presence there is nothing more than "business as usual."
It was mentioned that some members live in small towns and to summarize the OPs, recommendations were made to be friendly, become a regular, and since you are already using round cash numbers, are confident, and your appearance is professional and respectful, once again, your presence there is nothing more than "business as usual."
Tip 4: If applicable, make sure the location you pick location has automated terminals. That way by the time you are ready to see the cashier, all you have to do(after you've made small talk) is hand them your wad off cash and collect that ridiculously long receipt.
Tip 5: (This one is especially useful for those who've been declined and need a fresh start.) Create a Legal Entity like an LLC, Fictitious Name or Trust, It's easier than it sounds. You'll also need a phone number and email for it. voice.google.com offers free phone numbers as well as others I've been told. Setting up legal entities is a breeze, an LLC for example can be created in 10 minutes online. If you live in the U.S. jut go to your Secretary of State's website. (It's not free but pretty cheap when considering the benefit of anonymity) If you have another 10 minutes to spare you can even get it an EIN (it's like an SSN or SIN for fictitious entities and in the U.S. can be done at IRS.gov) and with that you can get a bank account.(But for our purposes EINs and bank accounts are not needed since you are using cash anyway) Then, when you go in person to the WU in a sketchy neighborhood and sit at the terminal, these are the credentials you use.
I know it sounds like a lot of work, but it's worth it considering the fact that your name, that apparently has a history of getting declined, is now nowhere on the transaction. (LLCs literally only take 5-10 min, and anyone can do it. Google it if you are unsure) In most cases because you picked a WU/MG in a sketchy neighborhood, (and if you followed tip 3, your appearance non verbally communicates that you are on official business) finalizing the transaction with a hourly employee who hates their job and is hardly concerned with annoying protocols and procedures, your business should be conducted without problem and you'll be out of there in less than 10 minutes.
(Oh yeah, never tell anyone you own the company, if you're the owner then you're resposible. Which in most cases is a bad thing. Instead you are a merely a go-fer, like a secretary or an assistant to a mid level manager. This way, not only can you commiserate with the counter troll, i.e. "man! my boss sucks! How about yours", or "Man, my dogs are killing me, thankfully I'm off in x hours" if asked any uncomfortable questions you can blame your not knowing on the boss, who just so happens to be an absent third party who's decries you couldn't possible be expected to defend. Placing the blame on an absent third party will deflate most confrontations. This technique is used all the time with married couples. "Oh, I don't know if I can attend your boring event, I'll have to check with my husband/wife."..... everyone knows bosses suck, so why not use it to your benefit.
Or if you are operating out of a trust, you can do one better. Still playing dumb add that if she really wants to know details about your business there, politely inform her that she'll need to submit her questions in the form of a written proposal addressed to the board of trustees(who in reality are probably just a few or your friends), making sure to cite any and all legal authority to make such inquiries. Thank her kindly and while you play with your phone as if scheduling a hearing ask her if she will be attending in person or via Skype? Either way the cost is the same? (Forgive my rambling, I have fun with this kind of stuff.) (Trusts are cool but for our purposes I'd stick with an LLC)
Tip 6: Have another mailing address that is not where you lay your head down at night. Mailbox Etc and UPS stores are nice because they are private street addresses and look like Suites. A lot of services don't like PO boxes but in most cases you can get around the automated check by placing the Post Office street address in the first line and the PObox number in the optional field, as well as other ways I'm sure. (For the box number you can us a # or ste. indicator of some sort to make it look less like a PObox)(Unless this is illegal, I don't know, I'm not a lawyer... Thank God)
Tip 7: USE CASH - this needs reiteration. Especially if you've set up an LLC, using a personal credit card will alert WG/WU that you and the LLC are affiliated.
Tip 8: As Breacher mentioned there is potential for red flags to be raised if you are constantly sending money to a variety of different receivers in the same country. Seriously, how many friends in financial need do you know living in country xyz? I encourage others to chime in on this one. I have to assume vendors like to mix it up to distribute culpability but I'm only guessing. A few thoughts come to mind when pondering this one. One being to simply place large enough orders that you don't need to order that often. (If this comment is not allowed, my apologies) and the other would be to create a new LLC for each receiver, but that's a lot of work. Maybe just creating a new one whenever one gets blocked. I don't know. Anyone have any other suggestions to contribute.
Tip 9: I don't mean to scare anyone, but I think we all know that there are most likely govt. trolls on these types of forums. So, NEVER EVER disclose the name of the LLC or any other legal entity you may have created in this or any public forum.
Tip 10: As for choosing a name for your LLC or other legal entity, pick something professional sounding, initials are always good. Like Z.P.P. Processors LLC, or better yet something charitable sounding (if, of course, you don't have a moral objection to that) like Helping Hands, LLC, or Lives Matter, LLC
I know the above sounds like a lot of work but not all 10 tips need implementation, though every little bit helps. I mean, let's be honest, governments the world over are going, or have gone, bankrupt, they're desperate for money. And it's no secret that a primary source of governmental income is taxation by citation. (I hate to utter such a nihilistic point of view but most beat cops in the US probably spend 75% of their day as revenue collectors) The Govt. is not stupid, they've been doing this a long time, it's simple economics, they go after sure things, or as we've been calling it "low hanging fruit." Especially if the fruit has a lot of assets to seize. I think it's pretty safe to say that implementation of one, if not more, of the above could do wonders for keeping you out of the "low hanging fruit" club.
Thank you Grandote, Zander, Stripers, TheMadHatter420 Bishop, Breacher and all the others, I fail to mention by name, that made recommendation regarding alternate forms of payment and other suggestions for WU/MG relief.
Tip 1: USE CASH - no explanation needed for this one.
Tip 2: USE ROUND NUMBERS. Western Union is for sending money to friends and family members, NOT for purchases. I mean, come on, how many times to you wire a family member in need of money $287.62? No, you don't, you send them an even $300.
So, if this means working with your vendor by adding or subtracting a little to get to that nice round number, so be it. Bishop mentioned a good idea if the aforementioned doesn't appeal to you. To get to that glorious round number see if your vendor will hold the remaining balance on account for use towards future purchases. I would imagine most here are already in regular communication with their vendor, so inquiries of this sort should not be a problem. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Tip 3: Credit Cards, debit cards, and easy online payments leave paper trails and because of all the fear surrounding identity theft and CC scams, payments of this nature go through more stringent security checks than cash. Save yourself the hassle, Go in person! Find a location heavily populate by either immigrants or families likely to have relatives that are incarcerated. Every city has them and everybody knows where they are. The WU/MG services are used often at these places and the clerk handling the transaction has probably developed an efficiency that does not include giving you a hard time. (This has been mentioned before, thanks OP) Even if it's a CVS or Walgreen's doesn't matter. I hate to stereotype but generally speaking the people who work at these types of franchises, especially those located in rough neighborhoods, are, generally speaking only there to collect a pay check and probably pay little attention to the training they received with regards to WU/MG aside from taking your money and wishing you a nice day. Also, it doesn't hurt to be a little friendly, ask about their day, and if applicable compliment their appearance. Which brings me to my next point, dress nice, compared to their regular clientele, a tucked in collared shirt (or the female equivalent) is usually all it takes to remove suspicion and provide an air of confidence. Your presence there is nothing more than "business as usual."
It was mentioned that some members live in small towns and to summarize the OPs, recommendations were made to be friendly, become a regular, and since you are already using round cash numbers, are confident, and your appearance is professional and respectful, once again, your presence there is nothing more than "business as usual."
Tip 4: If applicable, make sure the location you pick location has automated terminals. That way by the time you are ready to see the cashier, all you have to do(after you've made small talk) is hand them your wad off cash and collect that ridiculously long receipt.
Tip 5: (This one is especially useful for those who've been declined and need a fresh start.) Create a Legal Entity like an LLC, Fictitious Name or Trust, It's easier than it sounds. You'll also need a phone number and email for it. voice.google.com offers free phone numbers as well as others I've been told. Setting up legal entities is a breeze, an LLC for example can be created in 10 minutes online. If you live in the U.S. jut go to your Secretary of State's website. (It's not free but pretty cheap when considering the benefit of anonymity) If you have another 10 minutes to spare you can even get it an EIN (it's like an SSN or SIN for fictitious entities and in the U.S. can be done at IRS.gov) and with that you can get a bank account.(But for our purposes EINs and bank accounts are not needed since you are using cash anyway) Then, when you go in person to the WU in a sketchy neighborhood and sit at the terminal, these are the credentials you use.
I know it sounds like a lot of work, but it's worth it considering the fact that your name, that apparently has a history of getting declined, is now nowhere on the transaction. (LLCs literally only take 5-10 min, and anyone can do it. Google it if you are unsure) In most cases because you picked a WU/MG in a sketchy neighborhood, (and if you followed tip 3, your appearance non verbally communicates that you are on official business) finalizing the transaction with a hourly employee who hates their job and is hardly concerned with annoying protocols and procedures, your business should be conducted without problem and you'll be out of there in less than 10 minutes.
(Oh yeah, never tell anyone you own the company, if you're the owner then you're resposible. Which in most cases is a bad thing. Instead you are a merely a go-fer, like a secretary or an assistant to a mid level manager. This way, not only can you commiserate with the counter troll, i.e. "man! my boss sucks! How about yours", or "Man, my dogs are killing me, thankfully I'm off in x hours" if asked any uncomfortable questions you can blame your not knowing on the boss, who just so happens to be an absent third party who's decries you couldn't possible be expected to defend. Placing the blame on an absent third party will deflate most confrontations. This technique is used all the time with married couples. "Oh, I don't know if I can attend your boring event, I'll have to check with my husband/wife."..... everyone knows bosses suck, so why not use it to your benefit.
Or if you are operating out of a trust, you can do one better. Still playing dumb add that if she really wants to know details about your business there, politely inform her that she'll need to submit her questions in the form of a written proposal addressed to the board of trustees(who in reality are probably just a few or your friends), making sure to cite any and all legal authority to make such inquiries. Thank her kindly and while you play with your phone as if scheduling a hearing ask her if she will be attending in person or via Skype? Either way the cost is the same? (Forgive my rambling, I have fun with this kind of stuff.) (Trusts are cool but for our purposes I'd stick with an LLC)
Tip 6: Have another mailing address that is not where you lay your head down at night. Mailbox Etc and UPS stores are nice because they are private street addresses and look like Suites. A lot of services don't like PO boxes but in most cases you can get around the automated check by placing the Post Office street address in the first line and the PObox number in the optional field, as well as other ways I'm sure. (For the box number you can us a # or ste. indicator of some sort to make it look less like a PObox)(Unless this is illegal, I don't know, I'm not a lawyer... Thank God)
Tip 7: USE CASH - this needs reiteration. Especially if you've set up an LLC, using a personal credit card will alert WG/WU that you and the LLC are affiliated.
Tip 8: As Breacher mentioned there is potential for red flags to be raised if you are constantly sending money to a variety of different receivers in the same country. Seriously, how many friends in financial need do you know living in country xyz? I encourage others to chime in on this one. I have to assume vendors like to mix it up to distribute culpability but I'm only guessing. A few thoughts come to mind when pondering this one. One being to simply place large enough orders that you don't need to order that often. (If this comment is not allowed, my apologies) and the other would be to create a new LLC for each receiver, but that's a lot of work. Maybe just creating a new one whenever one gets blocked. I don't know. Anyone have any other suggestions to contribute.
Tip 9: I don't mean to scare anyone, but I think we all know that there are most likely govt. trolls on these types of forums. So, NEVER EVER disclose the name of the LLC or any other legal entity you may have created in this or any public forum.
Tip 10: As for choosing a name for your LLC or other legal entity, pick something professional sounding, initials are always good. Like Z.P.P. Processors LLC, or better yet something charitable sounding (if, of course, you don't have a moral objection to that) like Helping Hands, LLC, or Lives Matter, LLC
I know the above sounds like a lot of work but not all 10 tips need implementation, though every little bit helps. I mean, let's be honest, governments the world over are going, or have gone, bankrupt, they're desperate for money. And it's no secret that a primary source of governmental income is taxation by citation. (I hate to utter such a nihilistic point of view but most beat cops in the US probably spend 75% of their day as revenue collectors) The Govt. is not stupid, they've been doing this a long time, it's simple economics, they go after sure things, or as we've been calling it "low hanging fruit." Especially if the fruit has a lot of assets to seize. I think it's pretty safe to say that implementation of one, if not more, of the above could do wonders for keeping you out of the "low hanging fruit" club.