How many pills is it "safe" to include in one order?

[JohnKing]

I agree Bighead. Anything can happen, you never know. And with the dark net being publicized as a way to buy anything and everything you just never know. The ideal worst case situation for the end user would be a LL. You just have to take precautions to not leave a beyond a reasonable doubt "paper trail" aka cover your tracks as best as possible. I have heard a lot of legal scholars state that any prosecutor can easily have a ham sandwich indicted. Innocent before proven guilty is long gone.

[Back2Good]

In all honesty LE could knock on your door for illegally ordering one Viagra.  However, the chances of that happening are slim to none.  I know someone who ordered 600 of a benzo sent USPS overnight and the letter never made it.  The tracking stopped after two scans.  The sender was arrested a week later for intent to distribute, amongst many other charges (obviously a domestic vendor). The person ordering never heard a word from LE about the 600 pills addressed to them.  Usually, once they catch the supplier they leave the end user alone (most of the time).  

I've also read of where customs has opened packages, obviously saw the medications, and just used the customs colored taped and sent them on their way (probably customs agents that didn't feel like dealing with the paperwork or were close to getting off their shift, or just didn't care).  I won't say my largest order, but it was way more than a 90 day supply (like Charon pointed out that is a myth; it's illegal to import any amount of medications without proper paperwork).  It's more about what you feel comfortable ordering.  Hypothetically, I may feel safe ordering 1000 at a time and jimbob 100.  It just depends on how risk adverse you are, if you want to order larger amounts to order less, or if you prefer to order smaller amounts, but more often.  Personally, I fall in the middle.  My main vendor sends in 3-4 sizes.  I usually use the middle size.  cost is also a factor.  If I order the smallest amount I pay (random numbers) 60 cents a piece.  The next size up its 47 cents, then the next size it's 35 and the largest amount is 20 cents.  

Also, keep in mind that schedule 1 orders if found will have a higher chance of LE being involved.  I believe the same is true with schedule 2's.  If you order 300 schedule 2's and they get confiscated you may get more than an LL, as opposed to getting 300 schedule 4 or non-schedule meds will probably result in just an LE.  I could be wrong on this, but it's my thoughts on the topic from being involved in the world of IOP's for 5-6 years.

Bighead - Your anecdotal evidence fits in with mine...In short it is very rare for an end user to be targeted unless it is a result of bad luck, combining IOP use with other illegal (and ill-advised ) activities, or if LE has reasonable cause to believe that you know the vendor personally, and decide to lean on you as hard as possible to locate the real target of their investigation.

To borrow a phrase from our current president, "Don't do stupid s***."

Oh - And the first LL I ever received lo these many years ago was for 20 tabs of 100mg Viagra.  I still laugh about that one.

Best to you,

- b2g

[JohnKing]

In all honesty LE could knock on your door for illegally ordering one Viagra.  However, the chances of that happening are slim to none.  I know someone who ordered 600 of a benzo sent USPS overnight and the letter never made it.  The tracking stopped after two scans.  The sender was arrested a week later for intent to distribute, amongst many other charges (obviously a domestic vendor). The person ordering never heard a word from LE about the 600 pills addressed to them.  Usually, once they catch the supplier they leave the end user alone (most of the time).  

I've also read of where customs has opened packages, obviously saw the medications, and just used the customs colored taped and sent them on their way (probably customs agents that didn't feel like dealing with the paperwork or were close to getting off their shift, or just didn't care).  I won't say my largest order, but it was way more than a 90 day supply (like Charon pointed out that is a myth; it's illegal to import any amount of medications without proper paperwork).  It's more about what you feel comfortable ordering.  Hypothetically, I may feel safe ordering 1000 at a time and jimbob 100.  It just depends on how risk adverse you are, if you want to order larger amounts to order less, or if you prefer to order smaller amounts, but more often.  Personally, I fall in the middle.  My main vendor sends in 3-4 sizes.  I usually use the middle size.  cost is also a factor.  If I order the smallest amount I pay (random numbers) 60 cents a piece.  The next size up its 47 cents, then the next size it's 35 and the largest amount is 20 cents.  

Also, keep in mind that schedule 1 orders if found will have a higher chance of LE being involved.  I believe the same is true with schedule 2's.  If you order 300 schedule 2's and they get confiscated you may get more than an LL, as opposed to getting 300 schedule 4 or non-schedule meds will probably result in just an LE.  I could be wrong on this, but it's my thoughts on the topic from being involved in the world of IOP's for 5-6 years.

Bighead - Your anecdotal evidence fits in with mine...In short it is very rare for an end user to be targeted unless it is a result of bad luck, combining IOP use with other illegal (and ill-advised ) activities, or if LE has reasonable cause to believe that you know the vendor personally, and decide to lean on you as hard as possible to locate the real target of their investigation.

To borrow a phrase from our current president, "Don't do stupid s***."

Oh - And the first LL I ever received lo these many years ago was for 20 tabs of 100mg Viagra.  I still laugh about that one.

Best to you,

- b2g
Lol! Go figure thats the one they would intercept. Maybe Mr. Customs officer wanted them for himself!!

[LilRaquel]

Someone a few posts back mentioned that LE is more concerned with the sender. This is very true as I remember hearing from someone familiar with those busts a few years back on the domestic cart admin group. In the indictment against the pharmacy, LE gathered all their evidence from having agents order stuff. They also referred to customers who ordered from the pharmacies as "Victims". Despite having access to all the records, none of the victims have been contacted and this bust and the ramifications were discussed widely in other forums. None of the clientele of that OP were ever contacted by LE as they had their own evidence from their agents ordering.

So unless you have any evidence with an intent to distribute, it is doubtful LE will go after you. I'm paranoid sometimes too, despite never even sharing my meds let alone intend to distribute. When I put my trash out, I put the cat litter and poop on top of all other paper garbage, lol

Unrelated, the cat poo deterrent is also a good method to prevent identity theft too.

[Revolution]

Lil Raquel, I am enjoying your posts.. and that cat poo thing had me hysterical. Nice to meet you.

[Pebbles1]

Haha. Thanks for the laugh guys and gals. I also received my first LL for ED pills. But to answer the question, in my experience as long as you are not ordering a schedule 1or2 you will be fine ordering however many you want. I would be more concerned with placing all your eggs in one basket. Ask a vendor to maybe send your "large" order in 2 or 3 letters and offer to pay extra for shipping. It is better to lose some than all (for both the vendor and the consumer). I have also found that letters will arrive faster incase one gets stuck in customs for too long. Take care

[LilRaquel]

Lil Raquel, I am enjoying your posts.. and that cat poo thing had me hysterical. Nice to meet you.

Thank you, nice to meet you too

Yup, cat poo as LE and identity thieves know is the breakfast of champions. 

True story, kinda related. I have seen LE do a trash can search and it was crazy. I was walking my Dog and the trash truck came to the house on the corner as I passed. It was one of those ones with automated arms. There was a black car following it, didn't think much until the truck skipped a few houses went around a corner. As I walked by with my dog, the 2 guys in the black car were out and basically taking the trash and putting it in their trunk. I kinda knew the guy who's house it was from and debated in my head weather or not to say anything. I opted not to as I don't want to be a part of whatever was going down. When in doubt, I mind my own business.

Turns out, the story made national and local news. There were news trucks in front of the guys house and all. It was part of a nation wide sweep and crack down on child exploitation on the Internet. I'm glad I didn't say anything as that's the kinda people that jail was made for. This was a few years ago and I followed the case closely and my old neighbor and several others were convicted to very long prison sentences.

Just going back to the day I saw the black car and trash, I asked a family member who is a criminal defender about the legality of trash searches. He said the cops can't come on your property and go through your trash without a warrant and probable cause or they have to ask your permission. He also said for LE to do that, it must something big as its not a standard evidence collection method. However, on trash night/morning when the cans are on the side walk, that is public property and yes the cops can have at it, Anyone can pretty much.

So, food for thought for anyone who is paranoid about people going through their trash. Shredding and putting in regular trash is more secure than recycling. And well, if anyone wants to have a dig in front of my house they get the goodies ontop. I say make them earn their living and studies say cat poo helps your immune system. Actually that's BS and was just testing anyone still reading >^..^< cat poo makes can make you sick.....

[Marino1990]

Thanks for this post, Back2good; I am pretty knowledgeable when it comes to criminal law and corrections and this is a good must-read, especially for people new to IOPs, or those considering making a larger order or ordering something they haven't before that may be Schedule I or II as opposed to the smaller amounts of Schedule III or IV orders they made before, just for example...Know your rights!

[Back2Good]

Thank you Marino!  I'm no attorney, but I have thoroughly consumed FDA, DEA, and CBP guidance on this stuff for years, and I still check them every time I make an order to see if there are new publications or guidelines that have been published since my last order.  In relative terms, I have been using IOPs for a long time, and rather than be reduced to shaking in my boots while waiting for an order to arrive (that would be very un-Texan of me, I'd probably be barred from the great state forever for being a sissy), I try to stay as informed as possible, and learn from the unfortunate (or well deserved, in some cases) consequences of others actions.

That's what makes this forum so amenable to me - In addition to being packed with a great and friendly membership, the more senior members, mods, and admins efforts to screen vendors and ensure a Blacklist is maintained can not only save one's hard earned money, but keep one from wearing a striped suit in the future.

Best,

- b2g

[Marino1990]

Thank you Marino!  I'm no attorney, but I have thoroughly consumed FDA, DEA, and CBP guidance on this stuff for years, and I still check them every time I make an order to see if there are new publications or guidelines that have been published since my last order.  In relative terms, I have been using IOPs for a long time, and rather than be reduced to shaking in my boots while waiting for an order to arrive (that would be very un-Texan of me, I'd probably be barred from the great state forever for being a sissy), I try to stay as informed as possible, and learn from the unfortunate (or well deserved, in some cases) consequences of others actions.

That's what makes this forum so amenable to me - In addition to being packed with a great and friendly membership, the more senior members, mods, and admins efforts to screen vendors and ensure a Blacklist is maintained can not only save one's hard earned money, but keep one from wearing a striped suit in the future.

Best,

- b2g

I am no attorney either but took a number of Criminal Justice courses for years, and also consumed guidance on this stuff since I was like 13, 14 years old, honestly. LOL @ the un-Texan comment...yeah man get outta here with that! ya know ya cant be doing that here in tha lone star state!! ha....kidding. anyway, yes, you do learn a lot, from the unfortunate, (or well-deserved, in A LOT of cases) consequences of others actions. 

Yes, maintaining a blacklist and keeping it updated is very important, and I am glad we have such great mods and admins here that will assure we keep the best IOPS on here. Again, thanks for the post.