SUPPLEMENTS TO AID IN W/D's SYNDROME's

[Phobiartz]

Hello everyone! I hope everyone is having, a good holiday season and enjoying the last few days of this year.

This thread is to commence a discussion on supplements that aid you in those not so "good" or "covered" times. Hoping this is OK? "calling all mods"....SOS....beep beep beep 

Some may already know about certain things that they have discovered on their own and have not maybe, shared it?
Some of you may not feel comfortable sharing. I can understand that, your privacy is entitled, but even if it sounds bogus. Please, share it with the thread. If you want to speak on a specific topic like nerves or something to that extent. Go for it. Bring it!

Perhaps this is a repeat of some sorts..I apologize in advance. If it is not, carry on.

Thus, while keeping the forum rules and guidelines in check.
This is solely based off your experience, perhaps a friend, family member or foe experience? Perhaps an anticipation to your well being and or to help with some of those syndromes? Either way, this is just based of all natural supplements to aid one.

Remember to keep things civil and kind.
Just going to go by experience. Not based off any speculation, unbias information, and or false or mendacious information.

Autodidact and Didactic information is fine as long is it is backed up by the experience, itself. Everyone is different. Some things are subjective. That is the beauty in all of this..what works for me, may not work for you, but it may work for someone you know. 

Supplements do work, if you believe in them.  Just as much as the rest of the bio-chemical society we all live in these days. The secret has been kept from many and it is time to share. Experience, strength and hope!

This is about supplements, vitamins, nourishment and or natural remedies that help, nurture and regain your self worth and self-being without too much discomfort,or if they act as something else for you, I encourage you to share. Good enough? Great! Let's begin. If I missed anything else, feel free to add. Thank you very much and enjoy your rest of the year!! Happy New year!

Ok, so will start with one and go down the list from there, since some are cross overs for other medications, will start with the one that has been a tough one for me and for many globally. The rest, can be attributed by diet, amount of water you consume and your lifestyle). Let's begin with opiates and or substitutes a.k.a OP'S. 

I. Op's (there are so many these days, from RC's to new narcotics, subs, like; m-done and bupe's, bupe's with naloxone, etc.) op's = opiates.

Note: Although Ultram is not a narcotic. It still produces dependency on the body and considered a controlled substance. With habitual use and/or abuse. One's body does become dependent and therefore must need attention. Maybe not as severe, as some others, it can lead to some other complications, such as liver malfunction, etc..

So I have broken it down to 4 levels. You have a gradient when it comes to opiates due in part by, dose, the frequency which it is taken and the bio-availability. On top of the fact that one metabolizes the medication quicker or slower than some has no effect on this. This is to do with either wanting to wean off a specific medication or if you are not taking that specific medication, for a period of time. Some are on different types of pain management and some are on their way out of a methadone or suboxone clinic, etc.. But not here to speak about that. 

One thing is for sure, the body metabolizes opiates the same. Whether one has a tolerance or one does not. It is still creating on some level or another: an effect! Thus, forever changing the chemistry of how you cope with pain, your neurotransmitters and the ability to feel excitement, without the assist of something else at worst. Some may not like the feeling of not having their medication, so this is also something that may aid in that. Regardless, there is a gradient and there are levels in my humble opinion.

THE FOUR LEVELS

Level A. - Not really dependent, manageable with mental capacity and normal routine mode, energy is in check and natural dopamine and epinephrine production is in check. Feels manageable. Able to sleep and eat. Do normal functions and routines without issue. "Got this" kinda feeling mentally. 

Level B. - Same symptoms as level A. With a milder depression, chills, yawns and some watery eyes, maybe some soreness in the legs and back, yet somewhat manageable with O.D.C medication like naproxen aka aleve® (naproxen is derrived from thebain) thebain is the main extraction from the Papaver Opium Poppy (Iranian). Responsible for the production of a bounty full of pain medications, mostly through the synthesis of this chemical.

Level C. - Same as level B with more of a slight depression, increased watery eyes and pain around the clock, sweats, clammy hands, restless legs, insomnia, nausea. Roller coaster of emotions, empty stomach, acid-reflux, head aches, the WTF mate?? Kicking it feeling!

Level D. - Same symptoms as level C. Total lethargy, everything hurts (pains and needles symptoms), can not function and do normal routines. Voiding frequently and or vomiting. The reversal to that. I think we all know this level. If we have ever been there before. It is like the flu x10 with all that comes with it. Fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, jitters, yawns, your eyes water, your mind is racing and you just want to feel comfortable, but can not reach that level of comfort, unless, someone touches you and you feel right for a bit. Deep breaths seem to come frequent to avoid such torture...I pray for those on this level.

What I have found with op's is that your brain gets depleted of minerals, amino acids, vitamins and trace minerals. The most useful supplements for this have been in powder form. Well, I have found through experience, that powders are easy to place in much that you consume. Specially if it is in liquid form. Because you have better absorption this way. In case you do get sick, you at least retain some of these essentials! Let's start...

Amino Acids and Such

L- Tyrosine (500 mg - 2g) -

Although linked with helping some with weight loss! Whatever that means. This non-essential amino acid is a charm on the days that you wake up and you have merely no energy because your body has been used to getting a pep talk in the mornings. Well, try this at a higher dose! Oh and a word of advice, ditch the coffee for that morning! It will not be necessary. However, start with 500 mg per 50 pounds of weight. That is a good rule of thumb. I have experienced this specific supplement in many various ways and it has done wonders! It is a mood stabilizer, yes sir! It does not stop there. This is also responsible for protecting your nerves from those malicious toxins! Should you have any, lurking around? It does cross your brain-blood barrier! So this is definitely on my top list of supplements, because of it's amazing versatility! It really can be used in many settings. Both with the W/D's of opiates and benzodiazepines. Although, not covering that one at this moment. I will include it, as a segueway into the next chapter...This may be taken on an empty stomach. (Highly recommend purchasing in bulk powder form with this!) Gets expensive with the capsules! Trust me..

L-Lysine (600 mg-1.2g) -

Listen up here. For what I am about to tell you is crucial. This is an essential amino acid that is beneficial, responsible on it's own, for removing anxiety! It is a natural anti-anxiety supplement. With the best of benefits. It allows the help of the absorption of calcium an other nutrients. This supplement will help you with your skin, if you are looking to get your skin to somewhat normal stature, instead of a pasty white or if you have abrasions you want healed, this in conjunction with Vitamin E (oil). Will provide you just that. You may take this on an empty stomach. In fact, recommended. Like the cousin above. L-Lysine has had positive effects on both my joints and body aches! It helped with that restless leg at night. Higher doses, are ok, since the recommended dose for the day is 600 mg taken twice daily! Muscle heads take this to slow the absorption and synthesis of proteins. Great for the help of muscle and cellular structure growth. No ladies, you will not get biceps from this. 


N-Acetyl-Cystein (NAC) [500 mg - 980 mg]

This is said to help with mucus build up. However, this a major antioxidant buffer for the liver and I would highly recommend taking this anyway. It is also great for inflammation specifically, of the bowels . If you have been without
a normal movement or if you have had too much, this is great and can be taken on an empty stomach, as well.

N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine (NALT) [500 mg - 2g] -

A little newer, definitely a higher bioavailability than that of the L-Tryrosine. Mentioned first. What makes this one so different? Well, if you must know..it aids in the construction of catecholamine dopamine. What is that? Dopamine is used to construct yet another catecholamine neurotransmitter known as; norepinephrine. If you know anything about opiates. This is the function of the brain that needs the most attention. To start creating it on it's own. Thus, begin taking this with L-Tyrosine, Magnesium, Calcium and Zinc prior to a detox of sorts..ummm, you can begin the process before it gets to hit the fan. By the time you are off, you are well off, it may not feel that way, but you have to muster and do it over, even if you have to do small sips through the day, do not give up! It does get better. Promise!

Supporting Nutrients and Minerals

Magnesium Glycinate 20-29% (2 grams) -

800, 000 million Americans are depleted from this essential mineral. This is a an essential mineral! Your penal gland is going to need this for optimum function. The glycinate is popular since it does not have as much as a laxative quality as some other types of Magnesium. It is a natural mood stabilizer! Proven fact.

The mineral is also a stimulatory and helps with chronic fatigue. Not as much as the L-Tyrosine does, but this is a must! I highly recommend if you do not get to eat whole grains, nuts, leafy greens on a regular. It is the best form to alleviate gastrointestinal discomfort and disease; it acts as a co-enzyme in the digestive track so it helps with breaking down your food and carrying the nutrients to the proper receptors! In addition, it helps with getting your mood back to stable conditions for Magnesium is responsible for regulating neurotransmitter sites in the brain. There are countless of other uses for this amazing essential mineral.

Read about the "CAL-MAG" recipe below for information on a natural muscle relaxer, nerve stabilizer and overall healthy intestinal functional drink, that taste like arse, but works like a charm! I promise, it will do you no harm..

Magnesium Carbonate [powder] A little tougher on the stomach. This is more for a recipe used with the conjunction of Calcium Carbonate called "CAL-MAG". This in food form is called E504. This basically dolomite. The recipe will call for boiling water and an acid. This case it will be "raw apple cider vinegar". So keep on reading...

Calcium Carbonate- [powder] (SEE CAL-MAG recipe)

Calcium Carbonate - [powder] Three elements comprise this. Calcium, Carbon and Oxygen. This can be used as a natural antacid. Calcium carbonate has stomach settling properties. Boo-yah!! Killing so many symptomps in just a few supplements, not bad. Right? 

CAL-MAG is a mixture of Magnesium Carbonate, Calcium Gluconate, distilled water and cider vinegar. This makes a natural tranqualizer and a natural sleep agent. It does not taste the best. Yet, it works for various things. When in a state where you do not need assist to go to the restroom, I would suggest that you still drink 8 oz of this as needed or at least 3x a day. At the beginning. It helps to flush the toxins in your liver, stomach and intestines. Which is crucial as you know, to develop a new flora or a new set of bacteria for your intestinal track! Your body depends on this function to help get back to "normal" working functions.
 
Calcium Citrate - The calcium salt of citric acid. Although this does not have the same properties as calcium carbonate in settling one's stomach. It is said to have a better absorption through the body than that of the carbonate. Some prefer it over the Calcium Carbonate. Thus, this with magnesium glycinate, you can supplement for the carbonate forms for these two minerals.


CAL-MAG DRINK RECIPE - Natural tranquilizer and mood stabilizer. Diarrhetic. Body will become used to this. Make sure your spoon full's or measurement's are not over on the magnesium side of this recipe! 

1. One tablespoon or 15 ml calcium gluconate
2. 1/2 teaspoon or 2.5 ml of magnesium carbonate
3. One tablespoon of Cider Vinegar ( 5% acidity)
4. 4 oz of water or 120 ml's. 

Boil water, dissolve powder, cool-down, add Cider vinegar and finish with a remainder of luke warm or cold water to finish.
Cover and cool down in fridge. Make sure all your powder is fully dissolved in the liquid. I would usually take a cup,
add my Calcium, then the Magnesium, the Apple Cider Vinegar and finish it with the boiling water, this way, you get all your dissolved powders in with the Cider vinegar, while the water is boiling. Which is a ver important part to this drink. The drink should be clear, with the exception of the cider vinegar. You want to avoid a cloudy drink. That means that the magnesium carbonate is old or not good. Therefore, not effective. Some can use flavors to mask the taste, but I would not for any reason whatsoever add sugar to this! Sugar will destroy the effectiveness of this drink, because sugar is an acid! Not the good acid you want! For this. 


Anxiety Soothers

5-HTP (Griffonia Seed Extract) - 100 mg dose per day. This will create that calming effect you get when you are too full after a big meal. It aids in the help of sleep, behavior, appetite and even impulse control. While it also helps with anxiety. 5-HTP is known mostly for reducing the amount of panic attacks one gets. It plays a role in the production of serotonin in the brain. This too goes through your brain blood-barrier. Since it metabolizes to straight serotonin, 5-HTP is great for a post "enthogen-like experience". 

L-Theanine - (500 mg) - Love love this one! This is great for many things. I have found that it is great just in general. It is a little different to notice the effects of this, immediately, however, I strongly suggest you take this! Technically an amino acid. It is derived from the leaves of the camellia sinensis plant (tea plant) also linked in making teas such as white, green and yellow just to name a few. Itself is an anxiety soother, a relaxer (without the drowsiness) a mood stabilizer and if taken with caffeine it increases focus and mental stamina. I call this the wonder amino acid. It truly makes me wonder! The primary use for this is to cut on stress. I have to say this is something I have taken just in general and have found a ton of help from it. Mood stabilizer, de-stresser and stamina focus is noticeably increased with 10 days of using this at 500 mg/ per day. It has been proven to cut on your production of the stress hormone we all know as corticosterone. It has been proven safe to take for pregnant women and safe on the liver and kidneys. 

GABA - (250 mg - 1 gram) at most. Do not take it for more than 3 days in a row. I would highly recommend getting the powder and weighing it out! This one can create a problem on its own, if one is not vigilant about it. So go on the side caution with this one and try out, less than the recommended daily value of 250 mg's. As your tolerance goes up incrementally if you use this on a daily regiment. Then abruptly stop you will feel worse, so please be safe with this. When I can not sleep. I go to this as my last resource. This has heavy anxiolytic effects. 

If I am having benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome, I take about 50 mg's a day twice daily and 150 mg's at night. For three days on and two days off. I found this to be my sweet spot. Your sweet spot for GABA a.k.a Gamma-Aminobutyric acid which is technically an amino acid, maybe different per person. However, it falls under the Alpha Amino Acids. It is the CHIEF inhibitory neurotransmitter in the body. This is important because it is responsible for the balance in excitability in your brain. When the brain becomes excited in can lead to various effects; irritability, restlessness and insomnia. GABA is responsible for the calming of moods. The ability to help in regulation of muscle cellular growth. Finally this substance regulates embryonic and neural stem cells. Because this has to do with your CNS (central nervous system). Please consider this the same as a Xanax.. The trick to this is taking the lowest possible dose for the same effect. 

Phenibut HCL - (250 mg) - I take Baclofen for muscle spasms and for insomnia and found it to be incredible! However, I do not have it all the time. I found Phenibut to be this compound derived from GABA itself as a good supplement. Beta-Phenyl-Gammabutryic Acid a.k.a Phenibut is the closest molecule to Baclofen except that it is missing a Chloro molecule. This too can be a problem if not taken with extreme caution as the side effects of this supplement are just as bad as a benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome. 

I was hesitant to put this one on here. If you are going to opt for an assist in sleep this one has more potency than that of its cousin GABA. The extra phenyl group allows this to pass through your B.B.B (Blood-Brain Barrier). Reaching the receptors that are responsible for lower levels of stress and anxiety. This is a strong one! So be extremely careful. Following the same protocol of 2-3 days on and equally the same time off. 

Additional Vitamins and Nutrients

Asian Ginseng Root Extract or Ginger Root - I wake up nauseous most of the time, weather I am on opiates or off of them, this is handy to have around in general. It helps in the aid of digestion, while also scientifically proven to soothe upset stomach's and nausea.

Folic Acid - (200 mg - 400 mg) - is a vitamin B. There is a reason why women who are pregnant take this before pre-natal and after! For starters it prevents un-borns from being born with birth defects. So that says a lot right there! I love this for the mere fact that if you have a canker or cold sore, take 200 mg's of this and done! Gone within 48 hours. Folic Acid deficiency is very common. Specially amongst people who do not eat enough spinach fruits or vegetables! But I found this to be a good part of a regiment in supplementation. 

Zinc (as in zinc gluconate) - (385 mg)  This is a more soluble form of this mineral, as opposed to Zinc Oxide which is an inorganic compound, some will say is better, but I found gluconate to have the effects I want, specially when it comes to nasal and chest air flow. When I have taken subutex for some time, I did not have any issues with my breathing, because op's by nature are natural histamines and I have the worst in breathing without them, thus, Zinc in conjunction with Magnesium and Calcium as a recipe for a good healthy immune system has led way to my breathing issues and it cuts back on the possibility of getting a cold when my immune system is down. 

Potassium Citrate - ( 275 mg) - Another crucial piece to the puzzle. Potassium is an electrolyte! Yes sir! I said it. Well at least the citrate kind. Derived from Potassium itself. Potassium Citrate is awesome for increasing PH levels in your stomach. And to help reduce the acidity in both your bladder and your void's a.k.a urine. Why is that important? Well, when one gets dehydrated one looses a lot of minerals and electrolytes that help aid the body in functioning properly. Out of all the potassium derivatives this one is linked to lowering blood pressure and help in aiding cell growth in your circulatory system.

Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) (250 mg - 500mg) - Are you a smoker? You should be consuming Vitamin C on a regular. If you do not drinking acidic drinks. Such as OJ or if you do not get enough vitamin c in your diet. I would suggest getting this supplement. It is relatively inexpensive and comes in various forms. Since it is extremely water soluble. Your body absorbs this very well. I found that more than 400 mg a day, are no different than taking 2 grams per day, because your body can only absorb so much of it. Before you void it out. 

Vitamin B3 (Niacin) - FLUSHING KIND [500 mg - 2g] - This is the wonder of all wonders. Yeah I said L-Theanine was that. But this is where the magic begins to occur. If you want a flush. Once you begin to regain a more normal stable time in your recovery and if you have access to a dry sauna. Then I would highly recommend this. Take 250-500 mg's of FLUSHABLE not the NON-FLUSH kind, but the flush kind! Make sure you get the one that flushes. Why? Well, as much as it makes the skin feel itchy, tight and you get red blotchy skin. Which of course goes away. This is an indication of where all your toxins are stored. From foods, to medications to just breathing daily air. Niacin (B3 Vitamin) has so many hidden benefits. That one alone could supplement their nutrition with this Magnesium, Potassium, Calcium and Folic Acid and be covered! If you have symptoms of indigestion, fatigue, sores, vomiting, cracked or scaly skin and even cognitive impairments. Then, get this! Blood circulation is improved. When taking it. You can do some cardio for about 15 minutes to get the vitamin to your fatty tissue, this will result in the red skin and itchy skin. But do not be alarmed. This is part of the process. When you do this on a daily basis, increase your dose every 250 mg - 500 mg's. (Not recommended for women who are pregnant)

Vitamin B6 (500 mg) Also known as Pyridoxine HCL (B6) vitamin is crucial to converting tryptophan into serotonin. Hence why this is important to take with the rest of the gamut in the vitamin B complex hierarchy. Helps to strengthen our immune system.
It promotes dream vividness and I have noticed a change in how I dream when taking adequate amounts of this vitamin.

Vitamin B12 (100 mg) -  For me it helps with energy. I know when my body needs this and signs are fatigue of course, loss of appetite, weight loss and poor memory. When paired with folic acid it can metabolize homocysteine in the blood. It is linked to the slowing down of physiological aging, the reduction of memory loss, boosting mood and improving concentration over all.

Milk Thistle Seed (extract) - (100 mg - 600 mg) A liver detoxifier and buffer. I take this to help in general when taking anything on a regular basis or just for aiding in helping with cleansing specifically the liver. 

That concludes this for now. I will be adding more later, but this is the brunt of my findings through time and experience. Remember to drink drink plenty of water! The first part with the amino acids have given way to so many benefits. From increasing my appetite when I did not have one. To helping me sleep.  It really does work when one puts just a little effort into it. Will be adding more on the recipe and the part on Niacin as those two need more tailoring. Otherwise, feel free to add whatever you may know, etc.. 

Best to everyone,

PHoBartz

[Ladybugsrcool]

Following the Op stuff. I do have 1 question Ultram has ssri properties well similarities and does anyone know of anything to lessen wd from that?

[Sherlock29]

That was an excellent read I didn't know most of the stuff you wrote about existed or all the things they do. I've only just barely been to level B but I found a medium to large dose of Loperamide works wonders around 14 mg took away most of the physical withdraw symptoms for me. Loperamide attaches itself to the body's opiate receptors. It helps with any kind of physical withdraw symptoms. I've found Loperamide and a Benzodiazepine cover mind and body and were effective up to level B. I don't know if they work on stronger symptoms.

[Lunar]

Tianeptine, tianeptine, oh and did I mention tianeptine?

This stuff was an absolute godsend for me as I went through withdrawals from long time regular use of a certain μ-opioid subtype receptor agonist that is soon to be scheduled alongside other drugs that the DEA, in it's infinite wisdom, deem a significant enough threat to the sleeping masses, decided to make it illegal even for scientific research to be conducted.

I could go on, but I won't. I actually decided to quit eating the leaves of this soon to be illegal plant before I even heard the news that it is to be made illegal.


Anyway, acting on similar receptors throughout the body, I decided to try loperdimide first for the WDs but this made my stomach hurt so bad that I decided to set that bottle aside after only the second use and went in search of something else. That's when I found that tianeptine pretty much obliterated all WD symptoms. I had to take 160mg every three hours or so, which is double what I normally take but it worked like a charm. 50 to 100mg should work for those who have no tolerance developed with this substance.

It should work for most μ-opioid subtype receptor agonists, which should include any opiate. But I'm no doctor, so use at your own risk.

Specifically I used 160mgs tianeptine sodium every three to four hours and about 2200mgs of phenibut at bed time for the first 48 hours. With this combo I actually slept a little!!!  (I probably also took a crap load of Swanson sleep essentials and melatonin but I don't remember exactly)

On the third night I switch to taking 400mgs of tianeptine sulfate once at bedtime instead of waking up every few hours to take tianeptine sodium. (NOTE: The sulfate form is much milder and lasts a lot longer than than it's sodium counterpart. Though, when using the sulfate, most take roughly 2 - 3 times as much, the 400mgs I took is probably way more than most will need.)


I continued this routine for the next couple weeks, which left me really tired all the time, and in retrospect I probably should have stopped using the tianeptine much sooner.

WARNING: TIaneptine has some WDs too. But they are really mild and short lived, especially is you switch over to the sulfate form before discontinuing use.

[Batgirl]

Following the Op stuff. I do have 1 question Ultram has ssri properties well similarities and does anyone know of anything to lessen wd from that?

As you probably know, Ultram is dangerous to withdraw from cold turkey due to the seizure risk. But 5 HTP may have helped somewhat when I did a cold turkey some years back. St John's wort has always been worthless to me. I do emphasize somewhat, and may have been a placebo. It wasn't fun, either way.  Now, I would try inositol, too, if I was in the same predicament. Someone l think in the supplement thread mentioned corydalis, which I haven't tried but want to for anxiety and insomnia. Ultram is doubly fun to withdraw from due to the opiate and SSRI stuff huh?

[Charon]

We are not allowing discussions of any sch 1 on forums. Please Pm each other if you want to do so.

We make google search engine all the time, now, without discussion of sch 1's.

I am sorry, but it is not worth it for me to risk a knock at my door. Or the fate that happened to admins of other two ioplists that allowed talk in public.

Please, that is why we encourage usage of PMs.

[Lunar]

We are not allowing discussions of any sch 1 on forums.  Please Pm each other if you want to do so.

We make google search engine all the time, now, without discussion of sch 1's.

I am sorry, but it is not worth it for me to risk a knock at my door.  Or the fate that happened to admins of other two ioplists that allowed talk in public.

Please, that is why we encourage usage of PMs.

Right on Charon, thanks for the clarification. Makes sense, it's just not worth the risk.

[Shogun]

Message received. That was careless of me. In my defense it wasn't sch 1 when I posted. But yes, no need to invite unwanted rifraff our way. It's been a long time since I used a forum like this. I'm not really sure what happened with the last forum, but it's obvious there is a reason to be extra careful. It won't happen again.

[Tbaronfl]

Phobiartz - great piece. Thanks for putting all the effort in. Didn't know any of this.I'd like to keep this around so I can read it again, and refer back to it. Thanks again.

[Phobiartz]

That was an excellent read I didn't know most of the stuff you wrote about existed or all the things they do. I've only just barely been to level B but I found a medium to large dose of Loperamide works wonders around 14 mg took away most of the physical withdraw symptoms for me. Loperamide attaches itself to the body's opiate receptors. It helps with any kind of physical withdraw symptoms. I've found Loperamide and a Benzodiazepine cover mind and body and were effective up to level B. I don't know if they work on stronger symptoms.

Thank you! Thank you for sharing your experience too!  
Most of these claims and or facts can be found online. Just a little research. Each level is different for each person. 
Basically it was a generalized concept.  While some are from numbers in actual analytics. There is a measure for opiate or opioid dependency. It is done with with spectrometry or with certain DNA companies who are able to determine what level of dependency one would fall under. For example: what one would be considered to be a normal opioid dependent person would range between 0 -12 and a mid level risk for dependency would fall between 12 - 24 and so on..