Are consumer-level transcranial stimulator's a scam?

[Rafterman]

Hey, everyone
Everyone has been trying to capitalize on the success of hospital-performed electroconvulsive therapy for depression. In ECT, a person is purposely thrown into a controlled seizure. Long term positive results are in the 80-85% range for depression that doesn't respond to any other treatment. It's been nearly 5 decades since inventors began trying to duplicate the success of ECT by stimulating the brain from the outside of the head. There has been some success with TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation), but that requires a huge unit being applied to your head, as you sit through sessions as long as 120 minutes long. There are home units that use sound waves in place of magnetic stimulation. As far as I know, they are all snake oil. Has anyone had any positive experiences with any of them?

[barq2]

If they are substituting sound waves for magnetic stimulation, then it sounds like snake oil to me. I cannot see how sound waves could possibly replicate the effect of magnetism.

The TMS units used in research are expensive. It is a slightly controversial area in that it tends to divide experts as to whether it works or not. A year or so back I heard interesting stuff from a TMS expert who was applying for a job. He thought TMS could cure... virtually "everything" including epilepsy. He didn't get the job because we thought it was utter BS. Disentangling the hype from the real effects isn't easy.

ECT has a bad reputation from past use (even abuse), but yes it is still used for patients who are treatment resistant. It can produce much more rapid improvements than SSRIs, TCAs, or MAOIs. Many people are shocked (sorry, bad pun) to know ECT still exists, but the modern version is much more refined.

[OldBoy]

Hey, everyone
Everyone has been trying to capitalize on the success of hospital-performed electroconvulsive therapy for depression. In ECT, a person is purposely thrown into a controlled seizure. Long term positive results are in the 80-85% range for depression that doesn't respond to any other treatment. It's been nearly 5 decades since inventors began trying to duplicate the success of ECT by stimulating the brain from the outside of the head. There has been some success with TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation), but that requires a huge unit being applied to your head, as you sit through sessions as long as 120 minutes long. There are home units that use sound waves in place of magnetic stimulation. As far as I know, they are all snake oil. Has anyone had any positive experiences with any of them?

Hello Rafterman,

My Psychiatrist of 15 years, who I'm now no longer able to see due to "funemployment", had a Neurofeedback, or EEG Biofeedback unit installed in his office earlier this year.  It looks like a dental chair with a helmet attached (the helmet has electrodes inside it).  I was curious about it, and made the mistake of asking a question, whereupon I received a 45-minute sales pitch that ate up most of my 1-hour appointment.  It left me unimpressed, but per the Psychiatrist (and who knows if he was telling the truth or trying to sign up another patient for a 6-month regimen on the device).

From the brochure:

Neurofeedback, or EEG Biofeedback, is a useful adjunct tool being used in the treatment of ADD/ADHD, depression, anxiety, and other mental health issues. Neurofeedback is a learning strategy where a person is taught to alter their brain waves or electrical activity so that new brain wave patterns are produced that are more “in line” with those seen in individuals who do not have a mental health diagnosis or disability.


Neurofeedback and Therapeutic Applications
Use of neuro or EEG biofeedback has been extensively researched with findings freely shared with the professional community. Clinical reports show that neurofeedback has been effective as a therapeutic tool with:

• ADHD/ADD
  
• Addiction disorders
  
• Anxiety disorders
  
• Depression
  
• Sleep disorders
  
• Numerous other mental health issues and concerns that affect personal happiness, work, family, or social relations
  

Common Procedure for Neurofeedback
The use of EEG biofeedback or neurofeedback is painless and non-invasive. Sensors are placed on the scalp and on both ears. Brain waves are measured with use of an amplifier and a computer-based instrument that processes the brain activity and then provides the proper feedback. As the brain responds to the training and cues given, new learning takes place where new brain wave patterns are established in response to the stimuli given.

Successful Outcomes of Neuro or Biofeedback
The brain is able to use the training and feedback to make adjustments and improve its own performance, with the ultimate goal of changing the brain patterns to those comparable of those without a mental health disturbance. Training is a learning process and results occurs gradually. Progress may be seen or felt in 10 sessions, with more severe cases taking 40 or more training sessions.

I will admit that my skepticism is probably rooted in my having been medicated for seventeen years, but none of the other patients in the Doctor's office who I spoke to in the waiting room had availed themselves of the device, and had no plans to.  This may, of course, be an artifact of people my age being unwilling to accept change (especially people who have been on medications for a very long time), but I honestly have not been able to find convincing good reviews of this sort of treatment anywhere other than at manufacturer's sites.

All of this is purely anecdotal of course.  Neurofeedback may indeed be a miracle cure, but for those of us who have managed to control our symptoms with medication for a great many years, the prospect of (quite serious) withdrawal from the medication, especially with a Doctor who scorns the Ashton method or any other sort of tapering protocol is disconcerting.

[Rafterman]

Hey, everyone
Everyone has been trying to capitalize on the success of hospital-performed electroconvulsive therapy for depression. In ECT, a person is purposely thrown into a controlled seizure. Long term positive results are in the 80-85% range for depression that doesn't respond to any other treatment. It's been nearly 5 decades since inventors began trying to duplicate the success of ECT by stimulating the brain from the outside of the head. There has been some success with TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation), but that requires a huge unit being applied to your head, as you sit through sessions as long as 120 minutes long. There are home units that use sound waves in place of magnetic stimulation. As far as I know, they are all snake oil. Has anyone had any positive experiences with any of them?

Hello Rafterman,

My Psychiatrist of 15 years, who I'm now no longer able to see due to "funemployment", had a Neurofeedback, or EEG Biofeedback unit installed in his office earlier this year.  It looks like a dental chair with a helmet attached (the helmet has electrodes inside it).  I was curious about it, and made the mistake of asking a question, whereupon I received a 45-minute sales pitch that ate up most of my 1-hour appointment.  It left me unimpressed, but per the Psychiatrist (and who knows if he was telling the truth or trying to sign up another patient for a 6-month regimen on the device).

From the brochure:

Neurofeedback, or EEG Biofeedback, is a useful adjunct tool being used in the treatment of ADD/ADHD, depression, anxiety, and other mental health issues. Neurofeedback is a learning strategy where a person is taught to alter their brain waves or electrical activity so that new brain wave patterns are produced that are more “in line” with those seen in individuals who do not have a mental health diagnosis or disability.


Neurofeedback and Therapeutic Applications
Use of neuro or EEG biofeedback has been extensively researched with findings freely shared with the professional community. Clinical reports show that neurofeedback has been effective as a therapeutic tool with:

• ADHD/ADD
  
• Addiction disorders
  
• Anxiety disorders
  
• Depression
  
• Sleep disorders
  
• Numerous other mental health issues and concerns that affect personal happiness, work, family, or social relations
  

Common Procedure for Neurofeedback
The use of EEG biofeedback or neurofeedback is painless and non-invasive. Sensors are placed on the scalp and on both ears. Brain waves are measured with use of an amplifier and a computer-based instrument that processes the brain activity and then provides the proper feedback. As the brain responds to the training and cues given, new learning takes place where new brain wave patterns are established in response to the stimuli given.

Successful Outcomes of Neuro or Biofeedback
The brain is able to use the training and feedback to make adjustments and improve its own performance, with the ultimate goal of changing the brain patterns to those comparable of those without a mental health disturbance. Training is a learning process and results occurs gradually. Progress may be seen or felt in 10 sessions, with more severe cases taking 40 or more training sessions.

I will admit that my skepticism is probably rooted in my having been medicated for seventeen years, but none of the other patients in the Doctor's office who I spoke to in the waiting room had availed themselves of the device, and had no plans to.  This may, of course, be an artifact of people my age being unwilling to accept change (especially people who have been on medications for a very long time), but I honestly have not been able to find convincing good reviews of this sort of treatment anywhere other than at manufacturer's sites.

All of this is purely anecdotal of course.  Neurofeedback may indeed be a miracle cure, but for those of us who have managed to control our symptoms with medication for a great many years, the prospect of (quite serious) withdrawal from the medication, especially with a Doctor who scorns the Ashton method or any other sort of tapering protocol is disconcerting.

Hey, Oldboy
I am inclined to agree with your instinct to favor medication over neurofeedback/biofeedback and so-called "brain mapping". Unlike TMS, which at least holds a tiny bit of promise, the kind of feedback that you describe has actually been available for nearly 60 years. In my experience, if something works, people flock to it in droves...but brain mapping never really took off. That tells me plenty. Every few years, it makes a comeback under a different banner. Of late, it has caught the eye of many a practitioner as a potential cash cow. Did you know that you do not even have to have any medical training at all to open up a neurofeedback center and use these devices on customer's? I do not want to outright condemn anyone's intention's, particularly those of a psychotherapist, but it sure seems to me that there isn't enough data (and probably never will be) to support the claims by those advocating this technology. My instinct tells me the report's of favorable results are sketchy, at best, and quite specious, at worst.  Regards, RM