Did anyone watch the debates?

[Cricket]

I enjoyed the debate last night.  Much less helter skelter than the earlier primary circus.  I didn't notice the sniffling, I'm always, like Lester, trying to make out possible answers to the questions being posed. 

I thought Hillary "won" the debate, mainly by controlling herself and the tempo.  She also gave straighter answers on more questions to me, agreement or not.  I laughed because I did notice Donald say "ugh" a couple of times when he was constrained by the protocol to stay quiet and Hillary was jabbing him. 

For the first time as an older guy I'm abdicating my privilege to vote this year.  What if you all did this?  I don't know, won't happen, straw argument. 

Hillary is a career pol inculcated with a political mentality.  That's just how Donald got his quick start out of the blocks.  Career politicians are creatures of compromise and crossed fingers.  Though I believe neither candidate to be the Great Satan. 

I was for Donald for about two weeks at the beginning.  His impromptu caricatures of persons with physical disabilities took him out of contention for me, regardless of what followed.  I would not have a president who would do that. 

But, to the point, I believe Hillary took it last night.

Gran, no fight here, but if you didn't watch the debate you might visit the NPR site and their current politics forum.  I lurk there often.  You will find impassioned people like yourself there, they are fervent, and they are heavyweights and would welcome your input.

Giulani, as a crusading U.S. attorney was instrumental in enforcing portions of the RICO act to indict members of organized crime, and that is his ongoing contribution to the judicial system, thousands being indicted since who would have gone  un-prosecuted.  I agree with Audry, Lester, and Hillary, "frisk and search" was found to be unconstitutional, a dog that can not be allowed to hunt, and the measure of constitutionality is not a purely pragmatic one. 

Anyway, though I've always voted except this year, like C, I don't believe politics can solve our situation.

Spankster

Nope Spank, politics IS the problem. Why anyone would watch these debates or waste their time voting, is a mystery to me.
They ALL lie and make promises that they'll never keep. It's nothing but a dog and pony show.
I truly believe Hilary has had the job sewn up long before the circus began. They throw in Trump to play the part of the fool and act crazy so that people would lean more towards Hilary. It makes the whole "fix" look more legit. Our votes mean nothing. We don't have a say in ANYTHING that goes on in this country. "Elections" are held only to make us believe we have a say.

I know this is very controversial with many people, but when will we wise up? We are owned, lock, stock and barrel. Our next pres. was chosen a long time ago and nothing we do can change it. It's all gone too far now and the evil cabal runs you, me and everything else in this country and the world for that matter. Don't ever think that whom ever is pres. that things will change for the better. That's reality.

This is no longer America and we are not free or brave. We've given them our power and they have taken our freedom.

Cricket (the crazy person. We'll see)

[Grandote]

Cricket, I agree with you more than any of the others. The fix is in, if she doesn't get enough votes, they will just mess with the system and give her enough. I have little doubt bush jr had the fix going once, perhaps both times. Obomber had it the second time, they didn't have to use the back room tricks the first time because everyone bought into the baloney.

Hillary has accepted hundreds of millions of dollars that are basically bribes. The clinton foundation spends maybe 10% at most of its money on charitable causes and the rest is spent keeping the clintons in their lavish lifestyle. Do any of you agree with her pro war stance? Her pro tpp stance? Are you ok with the dirty tricks to steal the nomination from sanders? No one wants to talk about that, they just tell us how much they hate trump because of what he has said and what the media told them to think about it.

Will the dirty corrupt system change if trump is elected? I don't know, I do know hillary and bill are crooked to the core. They have been implicated in many murders from vince foster to secretary brown (who was turning states evidence just before he was killed) and many others. Bill is known to have molested or raped many women who have come forward. Hillary defends him.

People say they have proof that these things are not true but where is the proof? The evidence shows it is true. If nothing else trump does not owe anyone favors for millions in bribes because unlike hill, he didn't take them and does not need them. If he is elected, the media will be on his case with a microscope looking for anything wrong. This is what we need not a whitewash given like hill got or obomber violating the constitution knowing no one will call him on it.

We need a new broom desperately. If you think not then you probably believe the "recovery" is real and that we are rolling in prosperity.

[barq2]

I was a very early feminist.  But, it does not mean I just want any female in office.

We have such little choice here.  Well, the electoral college. But, after watching that, I am more horrified than ever with that loose canon in the white house.

Let us know. (oh, rudy was battling i believe it was prostate cancer after 9 11, i believe, and that is why he never ran.  But again, I just hear snippets of news.  Just as i know the majority of the legal profession is corrupt, I know the majority of politicians are corrupt.  humble opinion and all.)

Lots of UK feminists would agree after their Thatcher experience! (Not that I'm equating them as politicians, other than by gender.) But I was always surprised Rudy didn't go for it. He was a NY mayor who was known world wide.

Outside the USA I think people aren't so conscious of Clinton's problem with likeability and trustworthiness. The rest of the world is terrified of Trump as psychologically unstable. Even the right wing former UK prime minister David Cameron thought the comments about Muslims were stupid and playing into ISIS/ISIL's hands. (I don't like the "them and us" business, it doesn't help.)

BTW I'm not trying to get into an argument with anyone in the US of A about either candidate, just expressing on a widely held view from Europe. Speaking as someone from a country who just made a decision that puzzled the world (Brexit), I think it is worth thinking about how these things are seen from outside as well as from within. Ok, declaration of interest, I spent the last two months explaining Brexit to puzzled American friends ("you did what?!?").

[Tbaronfl]

Don't think decent candidates have a chance anymore. I know it sounds cynical but sadly it's true.

[Cricket]

I think they both lost.  I can not believe out of a nation filled with millions upon millions of people we can't get one decent candidate.  Just sad.

Hi Harley,

Actually, the real losers are us. They have everything so rigged that a decent, honest person will never get the chance. They are only gonna put out 2 candidates that will keep their plans on track. We lost this country long ago and there's nothing we can do about it now. Sure, every American citizens could march on Washington to try and fight to take it back, but they have all the biggest weapons that could take everyone out with one push of a button. I have no doubt that they would do it if they wanted to.

JFK tried to warn us of what was going on and was assassinated for his trouble. It's not the only reason he was taken out, but a big part of it. Eisenhower also put out a warning to us, but as usual, no one listened or understood how serious this takeover was getting.

As much as I hate to say it, we might as well get out the butter because this country is toast. It's gone way too far and deep for us to do anything about now.

Cricket

---

Don't think decent candidates have a chance anymore. I know it sounds cynical but sadly it's true.

Exactly right Tbar. If you're not on their team, you never get to play.

Cricket

[Grandote]

Very true about decent candidates not having a chance. Just look at poor bernie, he got robbed good and proper. What we found out about was I'm sure just the tip of the iceberg. Funny how the story about the dnc doing dirty tricks just sank like a rock thrown into the ocean. It sank and never again was mentioned. The fbi instead of investigating the illegal tricks, is investigating who released the emails so the whistle blowers can be prosecuted. Hill blamed russia, the media of course agreed, and that was the end of it. Didn't nixon have to resign because of a coverup of a burglary? How far we have gone in the wrong direction when major misdeeds go unpunished and the public seems to not care.

The fbi also gave hill a free pass on blatantly illegal use of a private server handling sensitive and top secret information. No one seems to care about that either. Are we so used to corruption and coverups we don't care anymore? Hill was spotted wearing an earpiece during the questions and answers a couple weeks back. No doubt had another one in the debate but cameras were instructed not to do any closeups of her ears. That lets her handlers feed answers to her when she gets flustered.

They tried like hell to sink trump, he is not the establishment candidate if anyone was thinking that. No, they wanted jeb or cruz or one of the others to win the gop and go against the queen. When they couldn't stop him they resort to attacking him every day with the media. That is one of the things I like about trump, he will not go along with business as usual.

Maybe trump is lying and will not clean things up as he promises, that could be. We know hillary will not keep any promises except the ones she made to the big donors who gave her millions. Her mentor obomber showed how easy it is to lie and get away with it. I'll try the guy who promises to clean up and who the corrupt establishment hates rather than the tired career politician who lies for a living. Trump already has his fortune, he doesn't need to sell ambassadorships to make a few bucks. He won't rubber stamp the tpp if it hurts american business and hurts our people.

The polls done by the liberal media are all biased and slanted. If they say trump is about even or a couple points ahead it means he is way ahead. I think the public will fool the polsters and the career politicians and deliver a november surprise. Be prepared to cry, most of you when hill goes down in flames. Then be prepared to be pleasantly surprised later on.

Why isn't trump 50 points ahead in the polls?

[Grandote]

Your post was hard to read or understand, audrey. I hope you are feeling no pain.

So many people don't like him because he is always scowling and angry looking when they see him. They don't realize this is the major media putting spin on things carefully selecting unflattering photos of him to use and carefully posed photos of hillary. They lie and attack him constantly while covering up her many scandals. Speaking of a bully, hillary is well known to abuse her aides and even the secret service people who are there to protect her. She has a nasty temper, is very much a bully. She and her hubby have a long trail of dead people who dared to blow the whistle. The women billy raped got savaged in turn by hillary who apparently saw nothing wrong in her husbands actions.

Trump is a rational businessman, he has not murdered anyone or raped anyone apparently. He is not taking bribes and knows how to run things. He is not the candidate most of us want but as always, its a choice between bad and worse. A crooked career politician who has already taken bribes worth way over $100 million dollars from giant corporations and foreign governments is by far the worst choice. While sec of state she used her position to direct favors to her donors. This is all documented and you will find much of it in this political forum and the rest can be found by a simple search. But if people don't want to know the truth they will of course not look for it.

The clintons stole everything in sight when the left the whitehouse, they were forced to return certain things like gifts from other countries but negotiated settlements so they could keep as much as possible. They took not only the furniture that was there but also tapestries on the walls, paintings, and even the carpet from the floor. Hill sold her office while secretary and has already reaped tons of bribes before she is even president. Why would anyone want more of the same corruption we have seen from the clintons all along? Obomber sold ambassadorships, he doled them out to those who contributed a few million but he is an amateur at sleaze compared to hill and bill.

More important than the blatant corruption is the fact hill is a major war hawk, pushed the libya invasion, iraq invasion, pushed for sales of cluster bombs to saudi arabia which they promptly used on civilians in yemen in violation of us law. The saudis have already given some $25M to her campaign since she pays them back so handsomely with our tax dollars. Does anyone really like the constant state of war the usa seems to be in with several countries?

If you don't like trumps personality, fine. If you knew hillary's true personality and not the scripted version the media gives you, you would like her even less. We don't get the candidates we want but have to make hard choices with the ones we get. Pick an unindicted criminal or a businessman who will set things right. I think he will win in a landslide, most intelligent voters are sick of business as usual but are reluctant to admit it to a pollster. Hill will have to explain to her bribe givers how she spent all their money and can't give it back, lol.

[Cricket]

Your post was hard to read or understand, audrey. I hope you are feeling no pain.

So many people don't like him because he is always scowling and angry looking when they see him. They don't realize this is the major media putting spin on things carefully selecting unflattering photos of him to use and carefully posed photos of hillary. They lie and attack him constantly while covering up her many scandals. Speaking of a bully, hillary is well known to abuse her aides and even the secret service people who are there to protect her. She has a nasty temper, is very much a bully. She and her hubby have a long trail of dead people who dared to blow the whistle. The women billy raped got savaged in turn by hillary who apparently saw nothing wrong in her husbands actions.

Trump is a rational businessman, he has not murdered anyone or raped anyone apparently. He is not taking bribes and knows how to run things. He is not the candidate most of us want but as always, its a choice between bad and worse. A crooked career politician who has already taken bribes worth way over $100 million dollars from giant corporations and foreign governments is by far the worst choice. While sec of state she used her position to direct favors to her donors. This is all documented and you will find much of it in this political forum and the rest can be found by a simple search. But if people don't want to know the truth they will of course not look for it.

The clintons stole everything in sight when the left the whitehouse, they were forced to return certain things like gifts from other countries but negotiated settlements so they could keep as much as possible. They took not only the furniture that was there but also tapestries on the walls, paintings, and even the carpet from the floor. Hill sold her office while secretary and has already reaped tons of bribes before she is even president. Why would anyone want more of the same corruption we have seen from the clintons all along? Obomber sold ambassadorships, he doled them out to those who contributed a few million but he is an amateur at sleaze compared to hill and bill.

More important than the blatant corruption is the fact hill is a major war hawk, pushed the libya invasion, iraq invasion, pushed for sales of cluster bombs to saudi arabia which they promptly used on civilians in yemen in violation of us law. The saudis have already given some $25M to her campaign since she pays them back so handsomely with our tax dollars. Does anyone really like the constant state of war the usa seems to be in with several countries?

If you don't like trumps personality, fine. If you knew hillary's true personality and not the scripted version the media gives you, you would like her even less. We don't get the candidates we want but have to make hard choices with the ones we get. Pick an unindicted criminal or a businessman who will set things right. I think he will win in a landslide, most intelligent voters are sick of business as usual but are reluctant to admit it to a pollster. Hill will have to explain to her bribe givers how she spent all their money and can't give it back, lol.

Hi Grandote,

I'm sure you know I have no horse in this race, but I think that whomever gets the nod, we will still be the losers.
Do you go with the evil witch Hil, or Trump who buys whatever he wants, not caring who he hurts in the process? We can't win and no matter what they say they will do, nothing will change. It's gonna be business as usual in the Whitehouse. I know lots of people think Trump would turn things around, but the power behind the scene is WAY more powerful than he is and would never allow him to throw a wrench in their plans for this country. They will own him just like every other president/puppet.
I wish more than anything that someone would change the direction we're headed in, but I don't see that happening at all. JFK tried to change things and we know what happened to him. I feel that Trump can never buy his way past the powers that be. Their agenda is set in stone and it's not gonna change.
You know I respect you and a lot of what you say, but I have to disagree on this one. I really believe Hil has the job and will be easier to control because she's very on board with the plan.

Have a good weekend my friend and I hope you don't hate me for my take on this.

Cricket

[teddy1998]

don't worry.  ur dead relatives and maybe u with a stolen ID may be voting for one side or the other for ya this year, slick.

i mean, how did all the more conservative votes get stolen in an upscale community when i did try to vote?

rigged.  it was atrocious to watch.  yes, hillary is reasonable on cam.  has much experience.  but, many of us recall many a person whom died under mysterious conditions under her husbands reign.  

i cannot trust either of them.

Oh, lets just put that anthony weiner sicko on the ballet.  at least he lets it all hang out so to speak. no secrets with him but for secrets to his wife.

I wish mayor juliani, our hero from 9 11, were available.

sighs.

Many, many people who've had ties to the Clintons ended up dead.  Several from"suicide".

[Grandote]

Cricket I would never hate on you for what you say. You are always honest and tell it like you see it. I try to do the same but am not as good at diplomacy as you and many others.

I agree the rich dirtbags behind the scene will try their utmost to corrupt and control trump if somehow he manages to get in. Kennedy was a good example. However, kennedy did many questionable things and made many powerful enemies. Among them j edgar hoover, the mafia, the cia and the banking cartel among others. His disasterous handling of bay of pigs earned him many more enemies. It was not just because he wouldnt take orders. Trump is more likely to be attacked before the election if it looks like he might win.

I think they will simply take off the gloves and go to full bore cheating on the vote. Why do you think they push for electronic voting machines with no paper trail? That is how they stole it from bernie, though the chump turned around and kissed the butt of the woman who robbed him. It was no doubt a combination of bribes and threats to get him onboard. Everyone in politics on that level know how good the clintons are at eliminating enemies and a cabinet position might be in store if he cooperates while his supporters feel the burn (not the good kind). Hill got the offer of a cabinet position if she backed obomber when it became clear he was going to win the nomination and needed her support. So now bernie gets the consolation prize. If the dems had nominated bernie he would be way ahead and trump would be rehearsing his concession speech.

I'm opinionated and I hope I don't lose any friends over it. Think of this forum as a playground where we can run and scream, shout and even cuss but then we go back inside and act nice.

I agree with you cricket that hill will probably "win". I put quotes around it because she will probably lose the real vote but win the crooked vote if you catch my drift.

Call me a starry eyed dreamer but I think if a miracle happened and they couldn't cheat hill into the white house trump would try mightily to fix a lot of things. The trade agreements, the idiotic decisions like letting in tens of thousands of unvetted syrians some of whom have committed acts of terrorism. He will have to compromise or get the kennedy treatment but a president has power and can use it for good or evil.

Look on the bright side, if he gets in the media will examine his every move with a microscope and give him no slack. He will be unable to get away with anything even if he wanted to. This is what we need, not coverups like obomber and hillary have been getting. The media will actually be doing their job for a change.