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Hi Dancing Wolf.   wow that is a lot of snow my friend!   Swiss Alps ...

Thanks for the story. Wow that is a lot of snow. I bet the building codes were , well let's say more robust for the roofs etc.

I don't doubt  that that you feel so different not having such deep snow around you.

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On another thought I was thinking of these .....maybe build a fire and watch it snow .   

 Cannoli.....  

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Those cannoli---mmmmm . Linville I gained weight just drooling over them.
OR

Well after feeling the snow flurries today and the cold wind I think this might be a better spot in the shade.

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My grandson has had a rough week.

His school segregated 2 of their buses with boys one side, girls the other, "as an experiment" reportedly (no goal stated for this experiment parents weren't told about)
I told him probably some kids were being too familiar or openly affectionate and school is looking for solution.
He didn't like my answer.
He quoted the Declaration of Independence (and I'm the one who taught him Declaration...)

2nd day He came in quoting portions of the Constitution and how this was violating his rights.
I told him "sorry, public school, they basically own you while you're there".
He didn't like my answer (and I'm the one who taught him Constitution.... )   Catching the theme here?  LOL

3rd day He came in with Title IX statute (I think) regarding Board of Education and segregation, debated like a lawyer that concept of racism mentioned in the statute also applied to any discrimination (it did say any discrimination, I believe), including Sexism tho not mentioned specifically.
I asked him if this was a battle he really wanted to choose and willing to accept any consequences.
I gave him some advice about peaceful protest and some suggestions that won't result in trouble.

4th day He came in with legal case of  Brown vs. Board of Education,  a ground breaking court case he found.  He believes he could use this also to support his "case" regarding the bus.  LOL  I was impressed at his persistence.  He's a great public speaker and loves to argue (lawyer?), but wants to be a geologist. And he would definitely not work 24/7 like many attorneys do. 
I've worked hard to hopefully teach him balance in life.
Can't wait for Friday (Wonder what's next? LOL)

BUT
I'm also hearing:
1)There are many more females than males so they are squeezing 3-4 girls in same seat some places while much smaller number of males are sitting alone on many seats, taking up 1/2 of bus even though they don't need it.

Is bus with unbalanced weight more likely to turn over??  Road very sharp curves and dips.

2) My grandson said atmosphere on bus worse every day,  so tense that twice in past week he thought there was going to be physical altercation, each time different people.  He says there will be a fight soon and his description actually included "too much testosterone concentrated in one area,"   LOL

3) He said boys are growing more bold and "disgusting" in their comments about the girls and to the girls.  Demeaning statements.
Trash talk and "boy talk" at the girls.
Ex. Boy sprawled alone on seat tells 4 girls squished together that's all the space they deserve and "be glad they let you even go to school"  (EXCUSE ME??!!)  Sexual ones also.  Imagine almost empty side of bus with some boys and then other half girls packed like sardines  - that's what he has described.  (From kindergarten to 12th all on same bus).
I'm having him count for next week am and pm how many total on bus and legal capacity. 
4 to a seat??? (Twiggies)  No seat belts.  Unbalanced bus.  Not addressing tension or inappropriate comments...


4) My grandson is a guinea pig in a "social experiment" without my permission or even notification?

What are the goals? What data, studies and facts do they have concerning this action that supports the goal?
Anything that proves this achieves something worthwhile? Data to prove it doesn't interfere with social interaction?
They already have many obstacles to much socialization with peers (rural place, lot of farms, 2 large nat/state parks nearby)
Or are they flying out their butt in a panic to "do something" cuz maybe a couple kissed or something (small kids told ? to adults)
You also have to understand there are only about 20,000 people in entire county to get full picture. The 'party lines' were a-ringing.
LOL
 
I will update you as this unfolds since my grandson is "outraged" at "segregation" and says all segregation is wrong, along with other wrongs, such as discrimination and females receiving poor treatment by gang of guys hogging the bus.

This might be interesting.
He has been so happy at this school since we moved.  All the teachers like him. 
I pray this resolve quickly and not ruin end of his high school senior year.

I thought about calling next week to ask about it all and voice questions/concerns I have above.

Am I only one concerned bus needs to have more balanced weight distribution on hilly, winding roads?  Am I over-reacting?
I have almost flipped my Jeep on curves like these and I am worried about that bus. 
I thought "suck it up" until I heard safety problem and sounds like bullying by boys that grandson said not there before.

Anybody else have a comment on it?

Dancing Wolf, no I dont think you are being out of line to ask those questions.
Be sure to get name of person you talk to with date and time and write it down.

Yes it sounds like a knee jerk reaction to some kissing or?? on the bus and if it has 1 thru 12 , well then MGMT feels compelled to "do something" maybe they even had a complaint from a parent to protect their kid .

Hard to say but very interesting story .
Good Luck that it resolves before trouble.
Thanks for sharing it, I will be watching as it unfolds.

In Catholic schools, boys had to sit separate and apart from girls.

In public schools however, it was discovered that the children were engaging in oral sex. on the bus.

Whether the females were amenable to it or not.

Sorry, i follow every legal case i can find. And since my good sis and my good nieces are all teachers, I always follow cases involving school and students.

Their goal is to segregate the students cuz of this foul play.

However, they are creating a hazard by having boys on one side, whom are fewer in number. and girls on the other.

Many a school has a paid monitor to ride the buses now to prevent bullying and fights and any sexual activity.

I would petition for a paid monitor. It could be a parent or a board member.

Let them get the feel of the bus with the weight differentials. sp?


I know of one man whom drove the school bus locally drunk and high. He hit a man walking in the street and dragged him hundreds of feet. he also chopped off one foot of the man. The man could not sue, despite all, because somehow the school is now protected against litigation for such events.

You have the cases and tools before you as presented by your grand son. If you can get some parents and grandparents to confront the school both with that info, and the fact that the division is gonna possibly cuz horrific effects should the bus tip over, u may be listened to.

Don't go in alone unless u r prepared to be tough. The teachers will always have four or five at their table and try to intimidate you.

So, I see some validity in what they are trying to do. But, they are doing it in a haphazard fashion. The appropriate thing to do, is to have a Paid Monitor on that bus. On every bus. And, watch the students for bullying, hitting, sexual activities.

This is unacceptable. Let the school make some jobs for mothers or others trustworthy in the area. Get Paid School Bus Monitors.

I always went up against my son's school. he received no punishment. Nor did i. You can win on this. Let your grandson research the number of accidents of busses tipping over due to improper sitting arrangements next.

The safety is your concern. Not necesarily the declaration and the constitution. But the safety of the children is at stake.

Bus drivers cannot drive the bus and be responsible for the students behavior.

Start with a petition signed by parents for Paid Monitors on All School Buses. Then present it to the teachers or school board, with all your other evidence.

Good luck. Your grandson is smart but ur better approach is the lack of safety on the buses.

Gosh what a great discussion of the issue Charon and Ms Hepburn

Dancing Wolf sounds like some good thoughts....anything new with the school bus situation?

Thanks Charon, Audrey, and Linville
All of you had helpful info for me

Linville,
my grandson said nothing happened on his bus but kids were 'holding hands' on another bus and some small kids told their parents.  Some parents complained.  This is right in middle of Bible belt.  It is a public display of affection tho not a big one.
That's all I can learn, not being from here.  But they aren't segregating kids on the bus where that happened??
They chose my grandson's bus "to be an experiment"?  Seems other bus should be the experiment.
I agree with you - bureaucrats with 'knee-jerk' reactions before they think solutions thru completely.


Audrey,
people tell my grandson he should be a lawyer but he's set on geology, Loves history/math/science. Reads for enjoyment.
(My personal theory is schools should teach How to learn, instill curiosity & Lifelong Love of Learning, not memorize dates etc)
He could work 100 piece jigsaw puzzle by himself when 4. He solved some wooden puzzle that his science teacher even hadn't solved.
At 9 yr he was completing LEGO kits built for 14 yr old kids - would sit for hrs.  Made up his own designs (pretty good)
How many 17 yr old go to book store looking for Dantes Inferno or Machiavelli or buy Works of Walt Whitman out of curiosity?
He's such a cool kid.  Has more of me in him than my own sons did as far as loving books, music & knowledge.
We share music with each other - he keeps me "up to date" LOL I play older music for him; he found opera on his own.
He has mild autism and one of his disabilities is writing.  He does ok now on computers but I struggled w/o much success for years to help him with his handwritten work - the page would look like one big word to me tho he could read it perfectly (?)
He has my spark of talent in writing actually, as far as ideas for stories & poems, and likes to write in his own time occ.
He Loves poetry cuz I told him 'there are no rules' and showed him  e e cummings   LOL 
(he's actually written some poems that drew his teachers' attention)
I am encouraging him to join the Debate Club in college.  He's really good at spotting weaknesses in logic or mistakes, etc.
They tested him recently and his results - 85% logical 15% emotion (yikes)   That is same as Einstein, he was told.



Charon,  I agree about legal standing. I follow lot of legal cases myself re: medical kidnap, vaccines, schools, social issues...
That's why as I thought thru the situation I realized safety was really the issue for me - also bullying now toward girls.
And if it's an "temporary social experiment" shouldn't notification been sent to parents?

It's funny but frustrating to debate a teenager over the Constitution when I'm the one who taught him.  LOL  
I have gone up against 5 to 1 before on his (and my sons) behalf when younger.  I'm not afraid of them.
Having worked in juvenile facility for dual diagnosis teens, I know the "NewSpeak" they use, trigger words, and can hold my own.
Was 1 of the 5 at times when I worked.... oh, that's rich.
I like asking questions that would make them look bad to answer, so they sit there staring at me    
Or worse, mumble some bs that I shred immediately.  Then I know I've won.
What I'm trying to impart to grandson is you can win and still lose. 
He can choose this battle but right now teachers & everyone really like him and it's end of senior year...
what is it worth risking?  what is he willing to risk?  Questions I usually ask myself in those situations.
Last night he said he didn't care about sitting with the girls anymore, it was "the principle of the whole thing" that he wanted to fight.
He deeply feels this is wrong for everyone and wants to make it right. 
As I said, he is an unusual, beautifully unique young man.


I've talked until principal apologized to my son instead of punishing him by finding the right angle to raise complaint
Anyway, as you point out the safety issue is valid, Charon, so I'll put my 'natural researcher' grandson to work on it.   
People said I should've been an attorney but if I had, I would've spent my time attacking govt injustices, causing trouble   LOL
It's better I know I helped people suffering in their bodies, minds, hearts, and souls.

I told him to see if anyone with cell phone can take pic from back of bus showing imbalance of seated students.
I'll know when he gets home today. 
He has told me since last year the bus carried too many children because school system small and not enough buses.  His first time riding on bus with such age disparity (he says little ones are noisy and annoying  HAHAHA)

Charon, I think they overload those buses until a monitor would have difficulty finding a place to sit...  
We'll see what happens next.  Kids were wasting time saying "Nazi" to bus driver & papers with swastikas pressed against windows for cars to see... One kid brought confederate flag and said they were being segregated & discrimination so it should be on the bus...
I suggested to grandson they get all the kids to sign a petition that describes their grievances instead.    
Get someone in authority to at least tell them what's going on
(they only found anything out when my grandson went to V-Principal's office to ask.  He told the man, "there's going to be a fight eventually & I don't think it's far off with the tension on the bus".  Typical bureaucrat said he'd pass info along.  Yeah, right.


This is funny.  In 5th grade I began focusing with him on our Constitution, Bill of Rights, propaganda, and over-reach of our govt into out lives.  I didn't wait for the crummy schools to fail him and brainwash him. 
I wanted a sentient grandson, informed and thought for himself.

At his parent/teacher conference they had four teachers and at the end they ALL looked over their glasses at Same Time to ask me "Please ask ***** to stop saying we're violating his Constitutional Rights.  He says he has the right to freedom & pursuit of happiness, and homework makes him unhappy so.... "  I almost laughed out loud. (you know they practiced that glasses act, right?)
I agreed to speak with him but couldn't help adding "Isn't it great to know we'll have a generation behind us that knows the Constitution and struggles to maintain freedom in our country?"  No response.   ROFL  Guess they didn't agree.  Or don't like inquiring minds?
I held it in until grandson and I were alone, then said "Good Try.  No Go.  You have to do your homework and now I expect you to be happy about it"  We both cracked up laughing.
Another time I stood up to Principal, Head of Spec Ed & 3 teachers and it was a stalemate of sorts.  I didn't give in and they couldn't enforce what they knew wasn't really legal or moral. 
 I was so glad when we moved because until now the new school has been absolutely wonderful. 
I don't want to argue or debate with them, but might when I'm able to walk if they continue.  After a little more research.

Thanks again to Charon, Audrey, and Linville!  

Hi Dancing Wolf,
What a great response . A fine read you made and so easy to read as it flowed, I guess I am seeing some of that talent.
Not kidding.
Very well written response to the ideas posted for your consumption.

I really enjoyed reading your thoughts to each. And Your GS sounds like you have done a wonderful,job raising him.

Oh I remember what I thought of whilst reading your post. You said you were going to encourage GS to join debate club at college....

I know a kid being interview at a college to get scholarship and they told him a certain situation and to argue for one side of it and after a few minutes they suddenly said okay now switch your sides and say why what you were just saying is wrong, wow now that is tricky.
Defend one point of view then change it to defend the other side , suddenly.....makes those cells think, eh?

So be sure to tell him about that one and how it could happen.

This kid did well he said but was taken back especially when the point they were making was strong feelings one side or the other.
And then to have to make the switch fast .

Oh and something else I though of when I was reading your response Dancing Wolf.....is that the schools do not teach the kids how to be a critical thinker.

Only to think how I tell you to think.

I think you touched on that in how you are trying to get him to be an independent thinker, good for you.
Find out how you feel about a topic and then defend it .

Well I will remember more as time goes on, DW good job with GS .
Thank you for sharing !

Charon, Linville, Audrey

I had to tell you this:  they already have bus monitors on every bus and have had them for several years!!!

Grandson said he has new one this year, "she's about 80 years old and sleeps most the time, when she's not sleeping she's always yelling at somebody".   He said they try to let her sleep.    ROTFL

One problem I have with the weight distribution issue - it changes every day and different in am than in pm.  Some kids don't ride both ways.
It's gonna be difficult to get firm numbers on occupancy and seating.  Use ranges and averages to assess, I suppose.


BE SO GLAD WHEN HE GRADUATES IN MAY! 
He turns 18 this summer.  A man. 

It will be end of about 40 years raising kids - first my own (and their friends LOL), then foster daughter, then grandson.